Bitwig is so great and so flawed at the same time.

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I was rooting for Bitwig from beta through 1.x, but it took an interface turn with 2.x that I didn't like, and the issues I had with it have not been fixed or changed as of 3.1. I simply play, record, and do some minimal editing. And that's where it seems stuck in at version 0.9 to me. I still think it's a great tool for those that it suits. That's just not me.

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jonljacobi wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:22 pm I was rooting for Bitwig from beta through 1.x, but it took an interface turn with 2.x that I didn't like, and the issues I had with it have not been fixed or changed as of 3.1. I simply play, record, and do some minimal editing. And that's where it seems stuck in at version 0.9 to me. I still think it's a great tool for those that it suits. That's just not me.
It was the same for me with version 2 but I updated eventually last year and went over it. The pros just outweight the cons. And now that the Grid is out it can only get better.

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Like I said, for some it's undoubtedly great. The modulators and Grid hold only marginal (at best) interest for me and the pros definitely don't outweigh the cons in my case, or I'd still be using it. Love the look, but it just went in a different direction from what I thought it would, so a fond adieu.

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kokonut1 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:04 pm
gesslr wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:51 am
antic604 wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:55 pm
<SNIP>

...But even if it stays like it is, it doesn't matter for me because 90-95% of the time I spend with Bitwig is where it saves me time, not to mention I simply can't do some of the stuff in Cubase or S1. And no matter how great FL or Reaper are, I'm repulsed by their interfaces & endless menus, so even if I can write a riff or chord progression 2-3x as fast, no one can force me to use them :)
THIS. ^^^^^^^

FLS in particular is frustrating. I sense an amazing set of tools...but investing the time in learning the (to me) convoluted workflow is not feasible. They seem to be slowly changing things to be more accessible to folks from more “traditional” DAWs while not abandoning their unique take on things (e.g., changes to automation or assigning midi tracks). It will be interesting to watch it evolve.

FLS is old and has a ton of tools , synths and effects that makes it a very wrothwhile package if you put the time in and can wrap your head around the retarded workflow.

I understand the concept of putting things in the pattern section and then going in their " timeline and you can paint any piece anywhere but it gets confusing and very frustrating if you loose track of how you did your patterns sets and what you put in them. I think they tried to semi fix it but it is still a mish mash of processes that can slow you down and make the learning curve atrocious and demoralizing. Yet tons of tools,and effects that are not see in other daws.

Bitwig has taken the ableton route and decided to take the gui and flip it on its head to make it easier to work with with multiples windows and i like that, but having both daws i find it hard to compose organically in bitwig other than stiff usual edm where the midi is not too complicated.

I would find it hard to compose a symphonic piece in bitwig while in FLS you could do that because of the tons of tools you have at your disposition.

If bitwig could just start to implement a better midi, i sriouslt think that they would start to overtake a bigger marketshare which in term would help that financially and maybe get more people to help them build more items for their DAW. I know it is fairly new compared to others, i will give them that, but i feel that version 3 was sort of a misstep and that they should have worked on the midi portion of their software rather than giving us the grid first. The grid could have been a kick ass version for version 4.

Now unless they come up with some sort of own version of a wavetable, what else can they give us synth wise? They basically have covered every style of synth on the market and anything they come up with would be fluff and gadgety and most likely an emulation of something which may or may not be a strong selling point for a new version.

What i am trying to say is that they went the reverse of what i would have done bizness wise. I would have improved the midi first for version 3 then for version 4 i would have put out the grid and more midi features.

Another thing that bugs me is that barely anyone is producing any packages of any kind for bitwig i.e templates a la Ableton and such which shows you the relative notoriety of the software. It is an enthusiast software but not yet fully in the big leagues yet which chagrines me to be honest because despite everything i find negative, i feel that their package is well priced for what it offers.

No DAW is perfect but bitwig comes close to be to me, perhaps another few versions and it will ticks almost all of the boxes for me.
I think you make some really good points. I don't think releasing the Grid in V3 was a business mistake (quite the opposite in fact), but I do hope they give the midi side of things the attention you describe in the coming releases.

Cheers!
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kokonut1 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:04 pm
gesslr wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:51 am
antic604 wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:55 pm
<SNIP>

...But even if it stays like it is, it doesn't matter for me because 90-95% of the time I spend with Bitwig is where it saves me time, not to mention I simply can't do some of the stuff in Cubase or S1. And no matter how great FL or Reaper are, I'm repulsed by their interfaces & endless menus, so even if I can write a riff or chord progression 2-3x as fast, no one can force me to use them :)
THIS. ^^^^^^^

FLS in particular is frustrating. I sense an amazing set of tools...but investing the time in learning the (to me) convoluted workflow is not feasible. They seem to be slowly changing things to be more accessible to folks from more “traditional” DAWs while not abandoning their unique take on things (e.g., changes to automation or assigning midi tracks). It will be interesting to watch it evolve.

FLS is old and has a ton of tools , synths and effects that makes it a very wrothwhile package if you put the time in and can wrap your head around the retarded workflow.

I understand the concept of putting things in the pattern section and then going in their " timeline and you can paint any piece anywhere but it gets confusing and very frustrating if you loose track of how you did your patterns sets and what you put in them. I think they tried to semi fix it but it is still a mish mash of processes that can slow you down and make the learning curve atrocious and demoralizing. Yet tons of tools,and effects that are not see in other daws.

Bitwig has taken the ableton route and decided to take the gui and flip it on its head to make it easier to work with with multiples windows and i like that, but having both daws i find it hard to compose organically in bitwig other than stiff usual edm where the midi is not too complicated.

I would find it hard to compose a symphonic piece in bitwig while in FLS you could do that because of the tons of tools you have at your disposition.

If bitwig could just start to implement a better midi, i sriouslt think that they would start to overtake a bigger marketshare which in term would help that financially and maybe get more people to help them build more items for their DAW. I know it is fairly new compared to others, i will give them that, but i feel that version 3 was sort of a misstep and that they should have worked on the midi portion of their software rather than giving us the grid first. The grid could have been a kick ass version for version 4.

Now unless they come up with some sort of own version of a wavetable, what else can they give us synth wise? They basically have covered every style of synth on the market and anything they come up with would be fluff and gadgety and most likely an emulation of something which may or may not be a strong selling point for a new version.

What i am trying to say is that they went the reverse of what i would have done bizness wise. I would have improved the midi first for version 3 then for version 4 i would have put out the grid and more midi features.

Another thing that bugs me is that barely anyone is producing any packages of any kind for bitwig i.e templates a la Ableton and such which shows you the relative notoriety of the software. It is an enthusiast software but not yet fully in the big leagues yet which chagrines me to be honest because despite everything i find negative, i feel that their package is well priced for what it offers.

No DAW is perfect but bitwig comes close to be to me, perhaps another few versions and it will ticks almost all of the boxes for me.
They had to release the Grid cause they initially promised to open up the modular back end for version 2... they had to fulfill that promise.

It was in one of the 2.x updates that they added full midi channel support. Also time signature changes, ability to change track timing, significantly improved the midi timing, etc.

Oh, Sampler already has/is their version of a wavetable synth! :)

I’ll be happy with whatever midi related improvements they make.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBmFwKH5bVY

Rounding out the MIDI and piano roll features, to compete with the well-established DAWs, would be very welcome. The Grid is icing, please finish baking the cake, Bitwig devs. :hihi:

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When people says midi is limited what do you mean ? I dont know if its just me and because i am a keyboard player but what do you really need more ? I mean i can record myself and do some edit after that like quantize , fixing mistake, transpose etc . Everything is there no ?

Step edit would be very nice and maybe some workflow improvement but when i compared Studio one 4 with Bitwig except step record i just dont understand what is really missing. Randomizing midi .. does anyone really use that ?
Do you really need something that makes chords for you ?

Its a serious question.

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There seems to be a set of users that don’t want a MIDI editor so much as a MIDI musical construction kit a la FLS. A few of those consider any editor that doesn’t provide chord/scale and paint features incomplete.

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jonljacobi wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm There seems to be a set of users that don’t want a MIDI editor so much as a MIDI musical construction kit a la FLS. A few of those consider any editor that doesn’t provide chord/scale and paint features incomplete.
Here we go again... :clap:

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jonljacobi wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:05 pm There seems to be a set of users that don’t want a MIDI editor so much as a MIDI musical construction kit a la FLS. A few of those consider any editor that doesn’t provide chord/scale and paint features incomplete.
I don't see anything wrong or a cheat at having more tools in your toolbox to get things done. The innovative companies leaves those who don't wanna change behind usually.

To answer another question. Not everyone is able to play a keyboard nut have a tremendous affinity at putting sounds together that sound extremely good.

Let's face it and be honest, the piano roll ( itself ) in bitwig is very basic and rudimentary at this time. It gets the job done but it put you in a box where you often time cannot have happy accidents.

example: you put a series of chords in FLS then you go to the Riff machine option and you can turn your 2 boring chords into something totally unexpected because of the features of that little do hikey in the piano roll. Sometimes, good music is luck and its good to have tools to take you out of your mold and take you to an unexpected place. It may be total crap or you could come up with a hit on some list just because the riff machine just happened to generate a cool melody for you and unconsciously it opens more doors like:

"woah, that is too cool, i ll try to put this in in my next tune and then you learn to program it by yourself and evolve.

By no means i am saying that Bitwig is bad. Not all all, it needs to evolve for me, that's all.

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kokonut1 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:57 am ...
example: you put a series of chords in FLS then you go to the Riff machine option and you can turn your 2 boring chords into something totally unexpected because of the features of that little do hikey in the piano roll. Sometimes, good music is luck and its good to have tools to take you out of your mold and take you to an unexpected place. It may be total crap or you could come up with a hit on some list just because the riff machine just happened to generate a cool melody for you and unconsciously it opens more doors like:

"woah, that is too cool, i ll try to put this in in my next tune and then you learn to program it by yourself and evolve.

...
No,no,no... this is not allowed... :hihi:

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kokonut1 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:57 am...the piano roll ( itself ) in bitwig is very basic and rudimentary at this time...
While I see where this is coming from, there's one thing I can do in Bitwig but can't in any other DAW I have (Live, Cubase, Reason, S1): if I have at least one note in, I can - just using computer keyboard - move it around, extend/shorten it and duplicate and then - moving between the notes - I can edit the whole pattern. I love this and frankly I'm only missing step-record for entering chords in an easier way...
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:39 pm While I see where this is coming from, there's one thing I can do in Bitwig but can't in any other DAW I have (Live, Cubase, Reason, S1): if I have at least one note in, I can - just using computer keyboard - move it around, extend/shorten it and duplicate and then - moving between the notes - I can edit the whole pattern. I love this and frankly I'm only missing step-record for entering chords in an easier way...
No step input, though.

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nvm

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stamp wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:41 pmNo step input, though.
That's what I said I'm still missing :D
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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