Bitwig 4 - what's gonna be in it?

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KVRAF
1709 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:13 am
I think if an OS update causes hardware to stop working then its a pretty crap update, who ever releases it!
Thanks, this is what is happening with almost any macos update since 2010 or so. Some problems were caused by the 64 bit switch, but also the system's firewire driver and api was changed by apple, so a lot of 64bit drivers also stopped to work. Usually Apple provides zero information about the changes, too. And does not annouce it either.

Sure I could now buy a RME device for about 800++ euro, but I also need two, so already 1600 eur, only to keep my macos audio system running.

Ok, I will stop now to rant about this, but I only wanted to add another perspective to the topic and why I think that waiting another year was not a bad idea for Bitwig either, or at least not prioritizing the ARM support...

KVRist
287 posts since 18 Oct, 2015 from Germany

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:00 am

Soooooo...who thinks we will get an update before the Harrison deal runs out?
I hope so :)
RME Babyface Pro / Bitwig / Dynaudio BM5A MKII / Elektron AR MKII / Elektron AF MKII

KVRAF
6621 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:08 am

The 3.3 beta release was 6 months ago, there doesn't seem to be a pattern....could be May!
PC, BWS, Live and Studio One, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, MPC Live, A4 and RYTM, PT, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses

KVRAF
8939 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:41 am

don_looney wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:00 am
Soooooo...who thinks we will get an update before the Harrison deal runs out?
I hope so :)
You know you can buy the upgrade but not activate until you want to right? So you can always take advantage of a deal but not go into your year of updates yet. Unless something is different about the current deal.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

KVRAF
6621 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:54 am

Its an interesting partnership (was it always UHE before?) given that Harrison make a DAW that some may see as a competitor?

Harrison 32C is a full-featured digital audio workstation....record an unlimited number of audio or MIDI tracks to your computer; then edit, mix and master your production. https://harrisonconsoles.com/mixbus32c-landing/

Especially as they say their DAW sounds better than any other DAW :lol:
PC, BWS, Live and Studio One, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, MPC Live, A4 and RYTM, PT, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

7964 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:01 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:54 am
Its an interesting partnership (was it always UHE before?) given that Harrison make a DAW that some may see as a competitor?

Harrison 32C is a full-featured digital audio workstation....record an unlimited number of audio or MIDI tracks to your computer; then edit, mix and master your production. https://harrisonconsoles.com/mixbus32c-landing/
Maybe Bitwig will go in Reason's footsteps and release Grid Plugin VST/AU/AAX?! I always thought this would be a good idea for at least 2 reasons:
1) Extra diversified cashflow to be used to finance development of Bitwig
2) Since Grid works best inside of Bitwig, it would also be a good marketing tool for the DAW itself
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRian
565 posts since 17 Jan, 2005 from London

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:13 am

antic604 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:01 am
Maybe Bitwig will go in Reason's footsteps and release Grid Plugin VST/AU/AAX?! I always thought this would be a good idea for at least 2 reasons:
1) Extra diversified cashflow to be used to finance development of Bitwig
2) Since Grid works best inside of Bitwig, it would also be a good marketing tool for the DAW itself
It would be a tricky balancing act to pull off. I think that they would have to have another Bitwig only feature, otherwise, sales from the VST could cannibalise sales from the DAW.

KVRAF
6621 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:15 am

I was thinking maybe they will put Harrison's mixer tech in Bitwig!
PC, BWS, Live and Studio One, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, MPC Live, A4 and RYTM, PT, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

7964 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:22 am

carlca wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:13 am
It would be a tricky balancing act to pull off. I think that they would have to have another Bitwig only feature, otherwise, sales from the VST could cannibalise sales from the DAW.
Native, universal modulation & routing?
Hybrid tracks & bounce-in-place?
Plugin sandboxing and bridging?
Side-by-side clip launcher?
On-line collaboration? ;)
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRAF
18486 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:26 am

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 am
SLiC wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:13 am
I think if an OS update causes hardware to stop working then its a pretty crap update, who ever releases it!
Thanks, this is what is happening with almost any macos update since 2010 or so. Some problems were caused by the 64 bit switch, but also the system's firewire driver and api was changed by apple, so a lot of 64bit drivers also stopped to work. Usually Apple provides zero information about the changes, too. And does not annouce it either.

Sure I could now buy a RME device for about 800++ euro, but I also need two, so already 1600 eur, only to keep my macos audio system running.

Ok, I will stop now to rant about this, but I only wanted to add another perspective to the topic and why I think that waiting another year was not a bad idea for Bitwig either, or at least not prioritizing the ARM support...
And yet some companies like RME seem to have no trouble keeping up and updating their drivers in a timely manner.

Waiting another year would be a bad thing for Bitwig... there are lots of people who want to buy and use the ARM Macs. They will want a native version of their DAW. Blue Cat Audio just announced their main plugins have (beta) M1 support. Their own testing showed that the M1 13" MBP could handle twice the # of their plugins as the Intel 13" MBP it replaced and at lower latency. And in addition, the Intel had the fans on constantly and the M1 version was silent.

If Live comes out with native ARM support by the time the 16" MBP's are shipping and Bitwig waits a year or so, I'll switch to Live.

KVRAF
6621 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:30 am

I read this a while back...sounded like a DAW could not go native and run non-native plug-ins? :o

What this means is that although you get to decide to run your DAW under Rosetta 2 or Natively on Apple Silicon (if it’s been updated to native) you will not be able to run Intel-based plug-ins under Rosetta 2 in a DAW that is running natively on Apple Silicon (and vice versa). Put even more simply, our developer explains that this means you will not be able to mix and match a Native Apple Silicon DAW with Intel-based plugins. This means all of your plugins will have to be able to run natively on Apple Silicon before you can use them in a DAW running natively. You may even find your plug-ins get updated before your DAW – but the same problem will arise!
PC, BWS, Live and Studio One, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, MPC Live, A4 and RYTM, PT, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses

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KVRAF
18486 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:04 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:30 am
I read this a while back...sounded like a DAW could not go native and run non-native plug-ins? :o

What this means is that although you get to decide to run your DAW under Rosetta 2 or Natively on Apple Silicon (if it’s been updated to native) you will not be able to run Intel-based plug-ins under Rosetta 2 in a DAW that is running natively on Apple Silicon (and vice versa). Put even more simply, our developer explains that this means you will not be able to mix and match a Native Apple Silicon DAW with Intel-based plugins. This means all of your plugins will have to be able to run natively on Apple Silicon before you can use them in a DAW running natively. You may even find your plug-ins get updated before your DAW – but the same problem will arise!
That is my understanding... if you are running a native DAW, you can only use native plugins.

Fortunately for me, u-he and Fabfilter are both native now... Valhalla is on the way and so are a couple other plugins I use. I can work just fine with Bitwig plus those plugins (plus hardware gear). Who knows when NI will get there...

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KVRAF
7252 posts since 1 Aug, 2003

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:31 am

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:26 am
And yet some companies like RME seem to have no trouble keeping up and updating their drivers in a timely manner.
Because they spend time and money on it - ultimately the consumer pays, not Apple.

KVRAF
6621 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:32 am

Just having a quick look on the Live 11 beta forum its really just about running Live 'at all' on Apple Silicon, let alone natively! I guess that's the first bridge to cross for early adaptors, basic compatibility rather than native performance.

No doubt the M1 is a nice computer, but I wouldn't expect fully native DAWS other than logic anytime soon. Lots of changes have been made, we pretty much went 64 bit, we are gradually going VST3...but half the people here are still reluctant to move from Windows 7, people don't trust major OS changes! ;-)
PC, BWS, Live and Studio One, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, MPC Live, A4 and RYTM, PT, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses

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KVRAF
18486 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:20 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:32 am

No doubt the M1 is a nice computer, but I wouldn't expect fully native DAWS other than logic anytime soon.
Reaper is running native already too...

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