How do you Live like that?! ;) :D

[xbitz]

- I was an Ableton Live devotee for many years (since version 4).
- I moved on to Bitwig 3 for MPE after I found that I couldn’t wait for that feature’s arrival in Live 10 any longer.
- I recently purchased a Live 11 license due to the MPE integration there.
- I quickly realized that I miss Bitwig’s more flexible and deep modulation system.
- I then came running right back to Bitwig.
Anyone want a Live license?

just give me an MSEG modulator please, using a timbre modulated DC offset for this is fun but ...



btw. till some complexity level I would able to Live with

Modulat too, can you the MSEG dear developers at the left bottom...

anyway both routing and mixing(where is the mixer from AL) is far easier in BWS so ...

[pdxindy]

That reminds me.
Have to start prepping the lavender seeds in the fridge soon

yeah...

[machinesworking]

I still own Live, I have a guy I collaborate with on occasion who uses it, so I’m debating the upgrade.

mostly I hate Lives lack of shortcuts, and full screen edit window. I’m stuck on the dual Clip and arrange view in Bitwig as well. The fact the built in instruments, modulation and MPE implementation are better is icing on the cake.

[pdxindy]

I still own Live, I have a guy I collaborate with on occasion who uses it, so I’m debating the upgrade.

mostly I hate Lives lack of shortcuts, and full screen edit window. I’m stuck on the dual Clip and arrange view in Bitwig as well. The fact the built in instruments, modulation and MPE implementation are better is icing on the cake.

I like that Bitwig can have multiple projects open at once. Sometimes I am working on a project and I try something and it does not fit the current project but I like it. So I open up a second project and drag or copy it over and maybe add a bit to it then save that new project without ever having to close the first one. Sometimes I use an additional project as a scratchpad.

It is a small thing, but I like that I can install a plugin update and Bitwig immediately sees it without having to quit.

I like the stability of Bitwig. A few days ago I was curious about aggregate devices on the Mac so with Bitwig open and a project I was working on active, I made an aggregate device but accidentally unplugged my active audio interface, turned it back on and made the aggregate device with a second audio interface but clicked on the wrong option and selected Overbridge and then set the aggregate device as the interface in Bitwig which creates a weird loop. Oops. All that mess only crashed the Bitwig audio engine, but the project was fine. I went back to my usual audio interface and restarted the Bitwig audio engine and everything worked as usual and nothing lost. I've forgotten it is even possible to lose work with a crash. I try stuff I would never have dared to with previous DAW's.

The biggest thing I could not stand to go back to in Live is that when you modulate a parameter, you can no longer directly edit that parameter.

[Karlatin]

I'm new to DAWs and to music-making in general.

I checked out Ableton and Bitwig at around the same time. As a newbie, the first thing which put me off about Live, relative to Bitwig, was the grey-ness and the small UI elements. I was starting to get over that but then realised that a bigger problem was that Live was much less stable than Bitwig - for me.

There are some other things which I consider, though I'm sure they're not issues for everyone.

1) Bitwig is still compatible with my Windows 7, as well, its compatible with Linux if I want to go there. I believe that, as of 11, Ableton will be dropping Windows 7 support.

2) It APPEARS, i'm not sure, that those nice samples which Ableton provides, in .aif format, are locked. So, if I want to use a Live sample over in Reaper or Bitwig, its not easy to do.

[jclosed]

Hmm... I am missing the choice: "I used Ableton Live for years, but sold my license and switched to Bitwig"

Because that's what I did. Let me explain...

I was a big lover of Cakewalk's Project 5. For me having a clips window next to the "conventonal" time line window was a huge advantage. Sadly enough Cakewalk decided to drop Project 5 and concentrated on Sonar (I still think that was a stupid idea).

The only alternative to Project 5 was Ableton Live at that time, so I purchased that DAW and went on. As I was a Sonar user also (I used Project 5 and Sonar as a complete work environment), I tried to combine Live and Sonar. But for some reason (well mostly a set of reasons), I never felt comfortable with Live.

We all know how the story has gone with Cakewalk's Sonar, and at some point I switched from Sonar to Cubase. I used Cubase before Sonar, so I was right at home. I still use Cubase and feel no need to switch to another (liniair) DAW. Cubse is ideal for recording final mix tweaking and mastering.

I used Ableton Live until version 10 was released. As I used the standard version the upgrade from 9 to 10 was hugely underwhelming for the price asked. The Suite owners where clearly the target audience here, because they go a LOT more for their money. For me it was the final nail on the coffin, and I sold my license and used that money to purchase Bitwig.

That was a big improvement for me. Finally I got a DAW that had a strong resemblance to my old and trusty Project 5, and I felt immediately at home here. Leaving Live for Bitwig was one of the better decisions I made last years. For me using Bitwig is more fun and satisfying than Ableton Live ever has been.

Long story short - I use the latest version of Bitwig and (also latest version of) Cubase together, and am extremely happy with this combination.

[antic604]

Hmm... I am missing the choice: "I used Ableton Live for years, but sold my license and switched to Bitwig"

3rd one was supposed to cover it at least in spirit, so please vote that

[haircut]

The biggest thing I could not stand to go back to in Live is that when you modulate a parameter, you can no longer directly edit that parameter.

Yes!!! This, exactly! It seems like a ton of wasted potential after seeing what is possible within Bitwig now. That was simply too limiting for me... and not sure you can even (easily) map multiple modulation sources to one parameter destination in Live. Even if you could do so - you wouldn’t be able to see what was happening visually represented anywhere as clearly as you can with Bitwig.

[pdxindy]

The biggest thing I could not stand to go back to in Live is that when you modulate a parameter, you can no longer directly edit that parameter.

Yes!!! This, exactly! It seems like a ton of wasted potential after seeing what is possible within Bitwig now. That was simply too limiting for me... and not sure you can even (easily) map multiple modulation sources to one parameter destination in Live. Even if you could do so - you wouldn’t be able to see what was happening visually represented anywhere as clearly as you can with Bitwig.

I hardly used modulation in Live. I stuck to VST's with enough modulation so that I could ignore the clunky modulation in Live.

As you point out, the visual representation in Bitwig is amazing. I can select a device which has 4-5 modulators and see all the modulators and their targets in the inspector and also edit mod depths, disable a particular target or all targets and enable mod assignments and mod a specific target by another mod source.

[ReleaseCandidate]

I don't think Ableton even notices Bitwig. They are competing with Logic, Studio One and Cubase.

Make that Logic and FL.

[pdxindy]

I don't think Ableton even notices Bitwig. They are competing with Logic, Studio One and Cubase.

Make that Logic and FL.

I doubt Ableton pays attention to FL either. Not that I have a clue what they think, but the Live 11 feature set does not point towards FL as being a focus. Personally, I think FL's days are numbered.

[bangaio]

I used Live since 1.5 and a while back and bought a used Bitwig license back a couple of months ago. I loved it... and hated it. I will try to explain. I also use Logic and Reason. I know live inside out, have a workflow down and it just works for me but I find it uninspiring and the built in sounds have this weird sheeny sort of high frequency sort of sound to them. This isn't saying Ableton has a sound, more some of the plugins and sounds have a certain sound. I love love love Reason's devices and plugins, have been a Reason user since V1 and have a love hate relationship with it. Nothing is as inspiring to me. Logic is just immense, a superb mixing environment with spot on plugins but my workflow isn't where it is with Love or Reason.

Enter bigwig. Despite my workflow revolving around Live's session view, building up scenes using cmd shift I as I find combinations of clips that work and I sequence from there, I just didn't get on with the clip implementation in Bitwig. I also found the interface too cramped or too small on my 13" MacBook Pro and couldn't find a scaling setting or view that worked. The one thing I really didn't like however is the mixer. I got using big meters, but I just didn't find the mixing view a patch on any of the other DAWs I use. Mostly the faders.

On the other hand the sounds, sequencer, automation, built in devices and then the big one - the browser is just amazing. That browser.

Anyway I sold up, went back to live and while being on familiar ground I am not sure if I miss the inspiring workflow, that epic browser and the built in devices and sounds. Live 11 is very very nice though and my Reason love hate relationship still goes on 20 years later and logic is just logic.

[ozinga]

I think we are missing an option here:

1. I use live, tried bitwig and went back to live.

P.s. people that went back to live might still be interested in the direction bitwig takes so still look at this forum.

That is me I keep Bitwig current and follow the progress but not renewed activation when 3.3 came out though. Waiting for the next update to consider activating.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Do I need Max4Live to use LFOs? Since then, 600 EUR is way too overpriced. Would have expected 350 EUR for the max. edition (including at least LFOs, multi-segment envs etc)

[pdxindy]

Do I need Max4Live to use LFOs?

yes