What drives you crazy in Bitwig?

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KVRist
198 posts since 19 Oct, 2019

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:59 pm

MegaPixel wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:53 am
Song files, in my opinion, should be json or xml data if they were to add settings to it, it should be extremely easy to do. Not sure if you can read json or xml...

I don't see why anything that doesn't affect sound should be in the file save, and if it is going to be, then I see no reason why we shouldn't be asked to load those settings on load which would change bitwigs current global settings.

Some things belong in the files programs save, some things do not..
EG. Why doesn't docx (MS Word document or OTF formats) save the configuration of their software in their save files? Why doesn't Unreal Engine 4? Why doesn't VSCode? Why doesn't Adobe Photoshop?
Blender does.
I agree with some settings doesn't have to be local (or per track)

Talking about the format, json or xml produces big files and take longer to serialize than binary formats. Devs would have learned something from Ableton (which uses zipped xml)

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KVRist
121 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:34 pm

lokanchung wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:59 pm
Blender does.
I agree with some settings doesn't have to be local (or per track)

Talking about the format, json or xml produces big files and take longer to serialize than binary formats. Devs would have learned something from Ableton (which uses zipped xml)
I'm using json file for a web application at the moment, just hit 10kb, but I've never had a problem parsing json/xml files of 20mb to 30mb. Not to mention used to parse 20 to 40mb xml files with Adobe Flash for some projects, never really had an issue. But when they get to those kinds of sizes, there's no harm in splitting the files up and reference them from a structural / base / core / controller (mvc) xml/json file. That way micro updates can be saved to just the files in question, and history could be achieved on a modular/component basis (food for thought).

MongoDB ironically has a 16mb limit on a document (mongo is a nosql database which stores it's data as json documents, of which there can be many millions).

I would have assumed that higher level languages with more power than the web tech I work with, c++ etc wouldn't have any issues parsing a 100mb xml/json file or even a 1000 small ones.
BitWig & FLStudio
Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

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KVRist
60 posts since 19 Apr, 2021

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:05 pm

Not exactly driving me crazy, but i find it inconvenient that Bitwig lacks..

1. comping
2. Lack of a decent groove system like Ableton or Reason.
3. Midi Grid
4. granular delay effects
5. spectral FFT filters
6. Better TS algorithms
Noise Producer

KVRist
198 posts since 19 Oct, 2019

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:15 am

MegaPixel wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:34 pm
I would have assumed that higher level languages with more power than the web tech I work with, c++ etc wouldn't have any issues parsing a 100mb xml/json file or even a 1000 small ones.
Bitwig doesnt freeze while saving and that's why I thought performance benifit could be the reason. I haven't open it for a few weeks and iirc, a spinning wheel appeared for a few seconds. which means Bitwig handle it asynchronously.
User interaction isn't blocked while saving and they might keep a copy of save file (or partially serialized version) and manipulate it. Binary format is easier to edit in place so that could be the reason behind the design choice. But in this case your suggestion is easy to implement and I'd totally agree with you unless the devs got many other things to do :)

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KVRAF
8192 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:48 am

I've been recently annoyed by multi-track editing. When it's set up it just works and is great, but in order to get there most of the time I need to:
  • open detail editor / edit screen
  • switch to track mode or clip mode, as it's usually the opposite of what I need
  • enable or disable layered editing
  • enable or disable secondary data display (e.g. audio background when editing MIDI)
  • select or deselect tracks I want included with shift or ctrl, double-clicking, etd.
Bitwig could really handle it more intelligently, e.g.
  • when I double click a clip it should assume I want to edit just that clip, in clip mode;
  • when I open editor while focused on track header or time range on a single track, it shuld open in track mode, but without multi-track layers;
  • when I've multiple tracks selected or a time range spanning several tracks and I open the editor, it should open in layered editing and track mode, having the relevant tracks already visible and editable;
  • if I've selected multiple MIDI tracks/ranges and 1 audio track/range, it should open in a layered, track mixed view, with relevant audio data in the background.
  • and it should work dynamically, i.e. when I change the selection, it should adjust the editor accordingly (although that might be a toggle in Settings, that refresh only happens when opening the editor, not every time the selection is changed).
All the features & modes are there, it just lacks some logic & "intuition" to improve the workflow.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRist
121 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:07 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:48 am
I've been recently annoyed by multi-track editing.
Bitwig could really handle it more intelligently, e.g.
  • when I double click a clip it should assume I want to edit just that clip, in clip mode;
  • when I open editor while focused on track header or time range on a single track, it shuld open in track mode, but without multi-track layers;
    ............
    All the features & modes are there, it just lacks some logic & "intuition" to improve the workflow.
I agree with you on that, it gets me often, I double click on a block to edit but it's showing me either a part of it, sometimes it shows me all of it, it feels like it's random, its usually always zoomed in incorrectly on either axis. Then another double click and it sometimes gets it, then another double click and if it doesn't get it then I do the zoom myself.
BitWig & FLStudio
Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

KVRAF
3171 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:45 am

^^^ but music-making has the lowest prio
Image
don't get your problem :D actually making music is the hardest in Bitwig :party: (FL has reverse order for ex. )
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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KVRAF
18666 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:11 am

Peraqsha wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:05 pm
Not exactly driving me crazy, but i find it inconvenient that Bitwig lacks..

1. comping
2. Lack of a decent groove system like Ableton or Reason.
3. Midi Grid
4. granular delay effects
5. spectral FFT filters
6. Better TS algorithms
The first 3 I understand...

4 & 5 - just buy suitable plugins. Few DAW's have those anyway and they are not that useful as they impart a noticeable character to whatever content you apply them to.

6 - The Bitwig time stretch algos are some of the better ones available. It is not a weakness compare to most DAW's.

KVRer
3 posts since 22 Nov, 2020

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:26 pm

antic604 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:48 am
I've been recently annoyed by multi-track editing. When it's set up it just works and is great, but in order to get there most of the time I need to:
  • open detail editor / edit screen
  • switch to track mode or clip mode, as it's usually the opposite of what I need
  • enable or disable layered editing
  • enable or disable secondary data display (e.g. audio background when editing MIDI)
  • select or deselect tracks I want included with shift or ctrl, double-clicking, etd.
Bitwig could really handle it more intelligently, e.g.
  • when I double click a clip it should assume I want to edit just that clip, in clip mode;
  • when I open editor while focused on track header or time range on a single track, it shuld open in track mode, but without multi-track layers;
  • when I've multiple tracks selected or a time range spanning several tracks and I open the editor, it should open in layered editing and track mode, having the relevant tracks already visible and editable;
  • if I've selected multiple MIDI tracks/ranges and 1 audio track/range, it should open in a layered, track mixed view, with relevant audio data in the background.
  • and it should work dynamically, i.e. when I change the selection, it should adjust the editor accordingly (although that might be a toggle in Settings, that refresh only happens when opening the editor, not every time the selection is changed).
All the features & modes are there, it just lacks some logic & "intuition" to improve the workflow.
Yes! I barely use layered editing because it takes so many clicks to get it going. Would be so cool for it to be more streamlined.

KVRer
11 posts since 2 Jan, 2019

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:15 am

• Not to have the possibilty to route the send fx to a channel for a feedback loop to make dub mixing effects in a traditional way
Electronic Kraut Space Dub - Kosmische Musik https://midibitch.bandcamp.com/

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KVRist
121 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:22 am

- just had an issue with a vocal added to the main timeline, selected RAW and it cut the sample by a bit.. I had to add silence to the end of the samples to get the full length of the sample to playback. I stretched out the block to max length till it started repeating, and took a look at in close up editor and it looked fine, but still needed the gap at the end to play fully...
BitWig & FLStudio
Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

KVRian
582 posts since 17 Jan, 2005 from London

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:41 pm

Midibitch wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:15 am
• Not to have the possibility to route the send fx to a channel for a feedback loop to make dub mixing effects in a traditional way
I know that you can get around the feedback limitation in a grid by using a "Long Delay" set to the minimum delay. See how it's used here in making a Ping Pong Delay grid viewtopic.php?f=259&t=526058&p=7417862& ... y#p7417862

I wonder if there is a way of using similar techniques with Send FX tracks. I would be very interested in this as I am trying to build a decent collection of tools and workflows for all things Dubwise within Bitwig 😉

Incidentally, I'm enjoying listening to GLEiTZEiT on Bandcamp. I've been into Kosmische Musik ever since I first heard Can's reissued Soundtracks album in '79, and I've seen Damo several times, Faust four times and Michael Rother twice 😉

KVRian
564 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:40 pm

MegaPixel wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:22 am
- just had an issue with a vocal added to the main timeline, selected RAW and it cut the sample by a bit.. I had to add silence to the end of the samples to get the full length of the sample to playback. I stretched out the block to max length till it started repeating, and took a look at in close up editor and it looked fine, but still needed the gap at the end to play fully...
Sounds like a bug, did you send to Bitwig?

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KVRAF
8192 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:51 pm

_leras wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:40 pm
MegaPixel wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:22 am
- just had an issue with a vocal added to the main timeline, selected RAW and it cut the sample by a bit.. I had to add silence to the end of the samples to get the full length of the sample to playback. I stretched out the block to max length till it started repeating, and took a look at in close up editor and it looked fine, but still needed the gap at the end to play fully...
Sounds like a bug, did you send to Bitwig?
No, it doesn't. He just worded it weirdly.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRist
121 posts since 11 Apr, 2019 from UK

Post Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:59 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:51 pm
_leras wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:40 pm
MegaPixel wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:22 am
- just had an issue with a vocal added to the main timeline, selected RAW and it cut the sample by a bit.. I had to add silence to the end of the samples to get the full length of the sample to playback. I stretched out the block to max length till it started repeating, and took a look at in close up editor and it looked fine, but still needed the gap at the end to play fully...
Sounds like a bug, did you send to Bitwig?
No, it doesn't. He just worded it weirdly.
Just tried it again, same track, new sound sample, and it's fine... No clue as to why... But yesterday, let's say I dragged an audio sample with the words "one test" on a track layer, click raw, expanded the block to reveal all the sample, and "one test" would become "one tes"... Now its fine lol... Why, no idea...
BitWig & FLStudio
Web Developer by day, DAW tinkerer by night...

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