Bitwig ruins things

Official support for: bitwig.com
KVRist
127 posts since 18 Sep, 2020

Post Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:30 am

A.k.a the opposite of "what drives you crazy" thread.

Been thinking about this lately. For context, the "work" I often do is in the experimental/exploratory space without a specific goal or result in mind. The two specific things that were ruined are Logic and NI Komplete.

I love Logic for working with linear recording and editing, making instrumental demos with the Drummer and helping friends fix their mixes. But for creating something in it it just never clicked, despite the impressive array of seemingly all the synths and devices I could possibly want. I know it's possible and I see people do it, but somehow too many steps are just a little more premeditated and disappointing than rewarding, in the end it adds up. What's worse, and the fault is entirely my own, I never managed to produce anything exciting enough to keep going. Bitwig makes this painfully obvious by contrast: decision making and experimentation with minimal mental and ergonomic overhead shortens the path to an exciting result. They managed to enable a workflow that is the right combination of unassuming and unrestricted, and, dare I say it, fun. I don't have time to think about how I'm not quite loving this bass amp sound or that synth, or maybe this compressor model is not quite right here, and agonize over what changes I should make next when instead I can focus on just throwing shit in and seeing what sticks. Duplicate, throw it in a container, modulate, bounce, yeah it's interesting enough, move on. Logic has some amazing advanced functionality, but I'm happy to give that up for the excitement of staring at an empty black screen.

A similar fate befell Komplete. Bought it shortly after resorting to solo musicmaking when the pandemic killed band rehearsals, and thought "ok, now I _really_ have everything I could possibly need". Bitwig came a few months later. Now the M32 is collecting dust and I don't find myself reaching for NI stuff, except when I know I want a specific sound or effect. They are great sounds and effects but they are already pre-tinkered for me, and if I'm going to re-tinker I may as well do it in Bitwig native. Maschine is special and integrates amazingly with controllers, but there is always a point where it feels like driving into sand. I know I need to stop before that and export things out, but ugh.

All in all, even with the current shortcomings and crazy-driving things this is subjectively one of the best software purchases I've made. Hope they stay on path and keep ruining things.

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KVRAF
8215 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:21 pm

It ruined Ableton Live for me, even though 10, 10.1 and 11 in particular were fantastic updates!

The only two advantages Live has is that it feels snappier - not faster, but in a sense that things kind of snap or cllick into place, especially with regards to piano roll and arranger; and obviously sound content and new FX (spectral stuff, hybrid reverb) are mind-bogglingly good. But everything else, after Bitwig, seems clunky and andantiquated.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
31 posts since 29 May, 2019

Post Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:53 pm

I agree. Just finished a project that really drove this home. Bitwig was slightly stuttering in areas that Reaper handles just fine (audio editing, tempo manipulation), but all of the most important elements of the track could not be done in Reaper, or any other DAW. I hope that Bitwig (the company) can figure out a way to coherently market their product when the next major update comes, because I want people to pour money into it.

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KVRAF
3130 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:07 pm

good idea. I’ve said it many times but modern DAWs like Bitwig get some things painfully right compared to the old school crowd; uninterrupted audio when editing, solid mpe, snappy GUI, easy to use global macro parameter mappings for VSTs, built in modular environment, built in support for hardware synths, vst sand boxing etc. etc.

I still use and love Digital Performer, but mostly for arcane commands, complex mixing and mastering, the lower CPU hit and larger VEP templates etc. For any sort of more electronic and less “Pro Tools” style work I’m in Bitwig.

KVRian
568 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:04 pm

minortom wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:30 am
A.k.a the opposite of "what drives you crazy" thread.
...

All in all, even with the current shortcomings and crazy-driving things this is subjectively one of the best software purchases I've made. Hope they stay on path and keep ruining things.
What's with this negative title? It make it seem to anyone looking at this forum that this is a other moan thread.

Maybe you can edit the title to reflect what you say this is about: what bitwig does better.

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KVRian
1068 posts since 23 Jun, 2007

Post Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:59 pm

Bitwig lakes some Live feature like trigger clip modes usefull in a live situation : trigger, gate mode... and the subscription model sucks :D

KVRer
27 posts since 11 Feb, 2021

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:29 am

antic604 wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:21 pm
It ruined Ableton Live for me, even though 10, 10.1 and 11 in particular were fantastic updates!

The only two advantages Live has is that it feels snappier - not faster, but in a sense that things kind of snap or cllick into place, especially with regards to piano roll and arranger; and obviously sound content and new FX (spectral stuff, hybrid reverb) are mind-bogglingly good. But everything else, after Bitwig, seems clunky and andantiquated.
I agree with all of that...... Going to back to Live after Bitwig..... :scared:

I think I might have to bing some youtube tutorials and get my head around the Bitwig - Push integration.

The grid also lets me feel like a ballah modular-freak/sound-designer/intellectual-genius when I am actually none of those. The standardised aesthetic tickles me in ways that skeuomorphic VCV land could never imagine.

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KVRAF
8215 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:13 am

Josephhh wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:29 am
I think I might have to bing some youtube tutorials and get my head around the Bitwig - Push integration.
Just d/l & print the manual (I'm assuming you're using Moss' script) and read it. There's really no good video tutorials for it:

https://github.com/git-moss/DrivenByMos ... on-Push.md

I'm assuming you're already familiar with Ableton's tutorials on their site? They're handy because the general logic and high-level workflow still applies:

https://www.ableton.com/en/push/learn-push/
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRer
27 posts since 11 Feb, 2021

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:38 am

antic604 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:13 am
Josephhh wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:29 am
I think I might have to bing some youtube tutorials and get my head around the Bitwig - Push integration.
Just d/l & print the manual (I'm assuming you're using Moss' script) and read it. There's really no good video tutorials for it:

https://github.com/git-moss/DrivenByMos ... on-Push.md

I'm assuming you're already familiar with Ableton's tutorials on their site? They're handy because the general logic and high-level workflow still applies:

https://www.ableton.com/en/push/learn-push/
I found this, although I good portion looks devoted to the push1...not sure about the similarity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as8_hoi ... 3s&index=1

And yep, have watched the Ableton ones! I'm semi fluent on the push in Ableton.... thing I'm struggling with is realibly getting into the drum sequencer.....Probably a good idea to go through the manual... cheers :) :tu:

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KVRAF
8215 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:45 am

---
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
198 posts since 19 Oct, 2019

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:49 am

Bitwig ruins things but Bitwig itself isn't perfect and that drives me crazy.

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KVRAF
8215 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:01 am

lokanchung wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:49 am
Bitwig ruins things but Bitwig itself isn't perfect and that drives me crazy.
Which DAW is perfect?
If it was there, we wouldn't be using Bitwig.
It's as close to perfection - for our particular needs, individually - as possible :)
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist

Topic Starter

127 posts since 18 Sep, 2020

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:32 am

I think a large part of it is that Bitwig feels more like a toolbox rather than a framework and that nudges you to think more like a builder rather than a user. This is emphasized plenty on Youtube, such as the "Let's build a X" series and all the "devices are meant to be combined" videos. The flexibility and speed with which things can be designed, cobbled together, rerouted and reused from other projects and preset/clip libraries is key.

Like, I was working on a generative ambient piece and thought "what if when bass hits everything else does a little pitch wobble" — group, add delay, modulate by filtered AF sidechain from bass — done in 10 seconds without really thinking about it, and so easy to recreate I don't even need to save a preset beyond a mental note. Possible in Logic? Maybe, but seems like an ordeal. I can still wish for global modulation and a smarter clip launcher but it's not stopping me from plugging away.

I imagine Live is similar but I don't use it and can't comment.
_leras wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:04 pm
What's with this negative title? It make it seem to anyone looking at this forum that this is a other moan thread.
But then they get a nice surprise. Life is full of them.

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KVRAF
5497 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:25 am

_leras wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:04 pm
Maybe you can edit the title to reflect what you say this is about: what bitwig does better.
How Bitwig ruins the competition... (Things could be my things...)

KVRAF
3171 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:42 am

minortom wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:32 am
.. I can still wish for global modulation ..
audio rate based global macro still works fine for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy54UbVmZ4o

lazy to find it's original topic
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