My first post here was asking about Mac vs iPad. I kind of forgot about my old ipad air 1 until recently when I picked Animoog again. Animoog is actually the reason I started playing again after more than 20 years and is also the app where I first heard about MPE and guess what, the Linnstrument.
Still a beginner with the sound design thing, I would like to ask if you have any suggestion as to how best use Animoog's MPE options with the Linnstrument. I'm having most difficult to specially modulate things with the Y-axis. So tips, tricks, suggestions, patches...? Anything is welcome.
Tips for Animoog and Linnstrument?
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John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
Animoog has been my go-to iOS synth for years. It's an elusively flexible synth, and naturally works really well with the LinnStrument. In fact, Geert added the MPE functionality to Animoog while he was developing the LinnStrument's firmware, so go figure. Anyway...
I find the best approach with Animoog is to first go into "Timbres" and customize the X/Y matrix to your liking. A good place to start is to use wavetables that progress gradually from one timbre to the next like, say, subtle-to-coarse or vice versa: i.e. I often work with a sign-based wavetable at the bottom of the matrix, with each subsequent wavetable above it becoming more and more harmonically rich, noisy, or agressive.
From there, I tend to use Pressure to control parameters like filter-cutoff, resonance, filter-drive, and detune... And I typically use the Y-axis for mod-wheel, which I map to parameters like path-origin, orbit-amount, orbit-rate, LFO amount, LFO rate, etc. Path-origin also works well as a Pressure destination.
I keep the Y-axis in "Relative" mode and set the Initial value to zero, and I have Pressure configured to behave as "Aftertouch". This way I can shape the basic sound with the envelopes, using Velocity to control envelope amounts, then play the sustained portion of the sound using the X, Y, and Pressure controls.
When you put Animoog into MPE mode, it automatically uses CC74 for mod-wheel instead of CC1; so with the LinnStrument's default MPE settings (wherein the Y-axis uses CC74) the Y-axis will control any parameter in Animoog that you have mapped to "mod-wheel" under the "Control" header on the ENV/MOD page.
That said, I have recently switched to Moog's Model D app, simply because Animoog doesn't have a dedicated noise source; and I find that using noise as a modulator is paramount to creating truly expressive sounds. But that's just my personal preference (grin).
Anyway, I hope that helps.
Cheers!
I find the best approach with Animoog is to first go into "Timbres" and customize the X/Y matrix to your liking. A good place to start is to use wavetables that progress gradually from one timbre to the next like, say, subtle-to-coarse or vice versa: i.e. I often work with a sign-based wavetable at the bottom of the matrix, with each subsequent wavetable above it becoming more and more harmonically rich, noisy, or agressive.
From there, I tend to use Pressure to control parameters like filter-cutoff, resonance, filter-drive, and detune... And I typically use the Y-axis for mod-wheel, which I map to parameters like path-origin, orbit-amount, orbit-rate, LFO amount, LFO rate, etc. Path-origin also works well as a Pressure destination.
I keep the Y-axis in "Relative" mode and set the Initial value to zero, and I have Pressure configured to behave as "Aftertouch". This way I can shape the basic sound with the envelopes, using Velocity to control envelope amounts, then play the sustained portion of the sound using the X, Y, and Pressure controls.
When you put Animoog into MPE mode, it automatically uses CC74 for mod-wheel instead of CC1; so with the LinnStrument's default MPE settings (wherein the Y-axis uses CC74) the Y-axis will control any parameter in Animoog that you have mapped to "mod-wheel" under the "Control" header on the ENV/MOD page.
That said, I have recently switched to Moog's Model D app, simply because Animoog doesn't have a dedicated noise source; and I find that using noise as a modulator is paramount to creating truly expressive sounds. But that's just my personal preference (grin).
Anyway, I hope that helps.
Cheers!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 145 posts since 9 Sep, 2018
Hi John,
well, that was a savage post
, thank you. It should be added to the Animoog manual.
I want to say I tend to like "simple" sounds with a minimun of motion, keeping it very subtle.
I had a late night session yesterday. On my desk just the iPad and the Linnstrument, playing to bass notes with the left hand and letting the right find the notes in the upper register. Surely nothing worth recording, but very intimate and emotional, the feeling of being lost inside in a sea of sound.
The good thing with the Animoog is that it is fairly simple in terms of modules so when one figures out what the sound sources are and how to manipulate them it is a very good learning tool. Once I feel more comfortable with it I may go for the Model 15 but there is so much to explore in the Animoog (and my iPad can't simply cope with more apps!)
Thanks again. Now I have some homework to do.
well, that was a savage post
, thank you. It should be added to the Animoog manual.Yeah, that makes the bond between the two (animoog and Linnstrument) even stronger.In fact, Geert added the MPE functionality to Animoog while he was developing the LinnStrument's firmware, so go figure.
Nice tip. I've been starting from the center but I see it gives more sense to build things up from bottom to top.I find the best approach with Animoog is to first go into "Timbres" and customize the X/Y matrix to your liking. A good place to start is to use wavetables that progress gradually from one timbre to the next like, say, subtle-to-coarse or vice versa: i.e. I often work with a sign-based wavetable at the bottom of the matrix, with each subsequent wavetable above it becoming more and more harmonically rich, noisy, or agressive.
I want to say I tend to like "simple" sounds with a minimun of motion, keeping it very subtle.
This is what I find more difficult and I see now that it is because I must have been haft Y-axis in absolute mode. I tend to play in the middle of the cells so the mod wheel is in activated most of the time. I guess relative mode means zero on first touch and modulation on moving the finger up and down (I have to check, I'm answering right after reading you).I keep the Y-axis in "Relative" mode and set the Initial value to zero, and I have Pressure configured to behave as "Aftertouch". This way I can shape the basic sound with the envelopes, using Velocity to control envelope amounts, then play the sustained portion of the sound using the X, Y, and Pressure controls.
I had a late night session yesterday. On my desk just the iPad and the Linnstrument, playing to bass notes with the left hand and letting the right find the notes in the upper register. Surely nothing worth recording, but very intimate and emotional, the feeling of being lost inside in a sea of sound.
The good thing with the Animoog is that it is fairly simple in terms of modules so when one figures out what the sound sources are and how to manipulate them it is a very good learning tool. Once I feel more comfortable with it I may go for the Model 15 but there is so much to explore in the Animoog (and my iPad can't simply cope with more apps!)
Thanks again. Now I have some homework to do.
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John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
Both approaches to stacking timbres have their advantages. But when you're just starting out with wavetable synthesis, given the vastness of possibilities, I find it can be easier to visualize the modulation path if the wavetables progress timbrally in a single direction. However, if you're experimenting with orbital modulations, building the matrix out from the center makes a lot of sense.I've been starting from the center but I see it gives more sense to build things up from bottom to top.
I think wavetable synthesis excels at creating compelling sounds from simple elements. Just modulating in a straight line along a single wavetable is often all you need. And with a controller like the LinnStrument, it's amazing just how much expressivity can be had from manipulating otherwise subtle timbral variations, even without the use of the filter and envelopes.I want to say I tend to like "simple" sounds with a minimun of motion, keeping it very subtle.
Well, again, I would say that both modes have useful applications. If you're looking to emulate the more subtle inflections of, say, an acoustic instrument or percussive sound, wherein the timbre of the sound changes slightly depending on how you strike the pad, then "absolute" mode is the way to go. But if you want to be able to bend and shape the sustained portion of the sound over time, "relative" mode will give you more control. And you can choose whatever starting value you want for "relative" mode: i.e. in the Per-Split Settings on the LinnStrument, if you press-and-hold the pad labelled "relative", you can then swipe left or right to set the starting value...This is what I find more difficult and I see now that it is because I must have had the Y-axis in absolute mode. I tend to play in the middle of the cells so the mod wheel is in activated most of the time. I guess relative mode means zero on first touch and modulation on moving the finger up and down (I have to check, I'm answering right after reading you)?
Ya, both "Model D" and "Model 15" are CPU hogs. For live shows, I run Model D, iLectric, and SampleTank simultaneously inside Audiobus 3, and that's about all my 2017 iPad can handle. At any rate, Animoog is pretty boundless, so it should keep you engaged for a long time. If I could have only one iOS synth, it would definitely be at the top of a very short list of contenders. And if it had a proper noise source that could be used for modulation, it would be my one-and-only synth for sure.The good thing with the Animoog is that it is fairly simple in terms of modules so when one figures out what the sound sources are and how to manipulate them it is a very good learning tool. Once I feel more comfortable with it I may go for the Model 15 but there is so much to explore in the Animoog (and my iPad can't simply cope with more apps!)
Thanks again. Now I have some homework to do.
Anyway, I'm glad I could help.
Cheers!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 145 posts since 9 Sep, 2018
X & Y position modulation is something I hadn't thought about (I've been busy seeing the dot circle around in the screen), so that's my next project.
You did indeed, thank you.Anyway, I'm glad I could help.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 145 posts since 9 Sep, 2018
Speaking of Animoog, last night I hooked it up to the Linnstrument after a long pause. I had been playing with it just with the iPad and some sequencers, creating new simple sounds to experiment with different parameters. It surprised me how out of tune I was playing, especially sliding in polyphonic mode. I checked my settings both in Animoog and in the Linnstrument and they were all right.
Today I have checked with other two instruments: Model 15 and Audio Damage Quanta and I can confirm is not a Linnstrument issue.
To give you an idea of the sound, imagine a fretless bass, sliding up and down a string in search of a note not finding any, creating on the fly your own version of ever changing microtonality. Now put on top of that a fretted guitar, twisted neck, frets bitten by a troll. Well, the image might be a bit overdriven but it really hurt my ears.
I thought it might also be my playing but as I said, it only happens on the animoog. Another thing I noticed was the attack on most of the sounds, which with the Animoog keyboard sounds nice and clear, gets muddied, blurred, when played on the Linnstrument. Very strange indeed and not happening on other iPad synths.
I could ask you for advice, maybe you have experienced this too, but as it has been already noted elsewhere, I’d rather spend time playing than fixing, so maybe it is time to play with other synths. I got a nice sine key sound with granulated noise, modulated with the Y-axis in Quanta in no time.
Today I have checked with other two instruments: Model 15 and Audio Damage Quanta and I can confirm is not a Linnstrument issue.
To give you an idea of the sound, imagine a fretless bass, sliding up and down a string in search of a note not finding any, creating on the fly your own version of ever changing microtonality. Now put on top of that a fretted guitar, twisted neck, frets bitten by a troll. Well, the image might be a bit overdriven but it really hurt my ears.
I thought it might also be my playing but as I said, it only happens on the animoog. Another thing I noticed was the attack on most of the sounds, which with the Animoog keyboard sounds nice and clear, gets muddied, blurred, when played on the Linnstrument. Very strange indeed and not happening on other iPad synths.
I could ask you for advice, maybe you have experienced this too, but as it has been already noted elsewhere, I’d rather spend time playing than fixing, so maybe it is time to play with other synths. I got a nice sine key sound with granulated noise, modulated with the Y-axis in Quanta in no time.
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John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
There are three parameter "knobs" beside the keyboard: VOL, COR, and GLIDE...
That second one is for setting the amount of Keyboard Correction, which determines how much pitch quantization is applied to the playing surface. When it is set to zero, the graphical keyboard (and presumably any external controller hooked up to the app) will function as though it were completely "fretless". That's really the only thing I can think of, off the top of my head anyway, that might otherwise cause such behaviour.
Hopefully that helps.
Cheers!
That second one is for setting the amount of Keyboard Correction, which determines how much pitch quantization is applied to the playing surface. When it is set to zero, the graphical keyboard (and presumably any external controller hooked up to the app) will function as though it were completely "fretless". That's really the only thing I can think of, off the top of my head anyway, that might otherwise cause such behaviour.
Hopefully that helps.
Cheers!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 145 posts since 9 Sep, 2018
I know that button. I was even beginning to blame the Linnstrument :O then my playing skills.
This morning I sat with the intention of looking deeply into the problem to write for help. But then again I couldn’t get the out of tune feeling either with the Model 15 or with Quanta. Actually I had such a good time with the later that I almost forgot to go to work!
This morning I sat with the intention of looking deeply into the problem to write for help. But then again I couldn’t get the out of tune feeling either with the Model 15 or with Quanta. Actually I had such a good time with the later that I almost forgot to go to work!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 145 posts since 9 Sep, 2018
So I had a great time with Quanta, even made some patches but then it started to make some cracking sounds. Then I went back to Animoog and have spent some time with it and the Linnstrument.
In Animoog, velocity is defined by where in the vertical axis one hits. Botton = min velocity; Top = max. Pressure is defined by the vertical movement of the finger in the key.
In the Animoog keyboard there is no difference when hitting and releasing (pressure is still defined in “absolute” terms or in other words, pressure and velocity have the same values in that initial attack) but there is a lot of difference when playing with the Linnstrument.
As an example, preset MM-DN MelloD. Pressure controls filter-freq, pitch-1-semit & orbit x&y amounts.
On the Animoog keyboard, when orbit is modulated this way, one will hit different timbres.
On the Linnstrument pressure always starts at 0. The sound will then move from 0 to wherever the value passing through the different timbres creating the difference in sound. The beauty of the attack from the original sound disappears and the option to create different timbres cannot be done in the same way.
Using velocity instead we can achieve almost the same effect as with pressure in the Animoog keyboard but we loose the lowest values (it is difficult to hit a key a velocity 1 or 10).
Something similar happens when pressure controls pitch, I think that’s why it was so difficult to make pitch slides without sounding out of tune.
So existing presets has to be tested against the Linnstrument and when creating new it is best with the Linnstrument nor with a sequencer or the Animoog keyboard.
It is like I have a difficult time taking the iPad to a desert island.
In Animoog, velocity is defined by where in the vertical axis one hits. Botton = min velocity; Top = max. Pressure is defined by the vertical movement of the finger in the key.
In the Animoog keyboard there is no difference when hitting and releasing (pressure is still defined in “absolute” terms or in other words, pressure and velocity have the same values in that initial attack) but there is a lot of difference when playing with the Linnstrument.
As an example, preset MM-DN MelloD. Pressure controls filter-freq, pitch-1-semit & orbit x&y amounts.
On the Animoog keyboard, when orbit is modulated this way, one will hit different timbres.
On the Linnstrument pressure always starts at 0. The sound will then move from 0 to wherever the value passing through the different timbres creating the difference in sound. The beauty of the attack from the original sound disappears and the option to create different timbres cannot be done in the same way.
Using velocity instead we can achieve almost the same effect as with pressure in the Animoog keyboard but we loose the lowest values (it is difficult to hit a key a velocity 1 or 10).
Something similar happens when pressure controls pitch, I think that’s why it was so difficult to make pitch slides without sounding out of tune.
So existing presets has to be tested against the Linnstrument and when creating new it is best with the Linnstrument nor with a sequencer or the Animoog keyboard.
It is like I have a difficult time taking the iPad to a desert island.
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- KVRist
- 30 posts since 2 Apr, 2022
I just recently upgraded to the full Animoog Z for use with my Linn 128 (LNS).
I'm having a hell of a time getting good results while playing the LNS.
That is, I hear no modulation from pressure (after touch) or y-axis rolling.
I only hear velocity modulation working as expected. The other finger movements create no discernible effect to my ear. My understanding is "pressure" should correspond to the aftertouch pressure on the LNS pad and "mod-wheel" to y-axis movement? Is that correct.
I've set my chan per note as per the LNS instructions.
It almost seems that the response curves need to be tweaked in Animoog but I don't see any sign that that's possible. Any help is appreciated.
I'm having a hell of a time getting good results while playing the LNS.
That is, I hear no modulation from pressure (after touch) or y-axis rolling.
I only hear velocity modulation working as expected. The other finger movements create no discernible effect to my ear. My understanding is "pressure" should correspond to the aftertouch pressure on the LNS pad and "mod-wheel" to y-axis movement? Is that correct.
I've set my chan per note as per the LNS instructions.
It almost seems that the response curves need to be tweaked in Animoog but I don't see any sign that that's possible. Any help is appreciated.
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- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
I'm not sure but I think Animoog must be set for MPE mode, or at least to select MPE presets, and of course to also set LinnStrument to MPE.
