Official Thermionik 5 release thread

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KVRian

Topic Starter

766 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:47 am

I knew for many months in advance, going into this update, that there would be some amount of backlash over the UI. It was a specific, strategic decision, made for many reasons, carefully planned, etc. As I've alluded to earlier in the thread - beyond adding some sort of subtle, unobtrusive visual differentiation between plugins, I'm actively and passionately disinterested in changing the fundamental style of the UI any time soon. I'm extremely happy with it, and I stand by my decisions.

I think, though, that to understand my perspective, and how I intentionally arrived at these decisions - as someone who started out in graphic design, and who has been creating both 2D and 3D graphics for more than 25 years (starting on the Commodore Amiga) - we need to have a discussion about user interface design or interaction design, and how these activities differ completely from graphic design.

First of all, it's important to understand that to emulate the functionality of something that exists in the real world, we don't have to make it visually look like the real thing on screen. In fact, in trying to do this, we often hinder usability. This is a topic known as skeuomorphism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph

While I'm not in favor of flattening visual elements and eliminating them of shading in the way that Apple and many others have been guilty of as of late, I do think that from an interactive perspective, we need to dispense of this whole notion that the software must look like the hardware (down to the rack rash and adhesive remnants in many cases in today's audio plugins.) It's silly - and while it may have been great for transitioning a generation of engineers from one paradigm into the next, that transition is long since over, and generations coming up are confused and intimidated by difficult to use UIs (often with hard to read control labels, lack of obvious textual input, etc.) based on hardware they will likely never encounter in their lifetimes.

In other words: I have zero interest in revisiting the era of 3D rendered studio hardware in plugins. I've been there, I've done it, and I'm over it. If that's what you're looking for, there are a lot of plugin manufacturers still making that sort of thing.

PS - 3D rendered UIs should never consume more CPU. They do, however, consume more RAM, but that's not much of an issue these days. The biggest areas they consume are time and money - specifically, development time (which is also money), and users' money (in the form of the cost to you to buy a license.) I'm interested in conserving both. 8)
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog

KVRAF
1909 posts since 15 Sep, 2003 from Land of Crazies, USA

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:34 am

MrBongo wrote:

re the "digital resonance": maybe it´s your monitors´ tweeters that have a peak of certain annoyance, or simply the lack of surgical EQ?
Sounds like it could be a combination of things. I have a favorite IR, so I tend to tune my guitars (IE choosing components such as body wood, fretboard material, pickups, etc) that work the best with it.

I think he mentioned using an E-Mu 1212. Could be the input on that. I know I had one guitar that overloaded the input on an M-Audio 410 for no reason whatsoever. (All the other guitars were fine, and it was a "medium" output pickup on that guitar.)
Last edited by Dominus on Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KVRAF
1909 posts since 15 Sep, 2003 from Land of Crazies, USA

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:37 am

Burillo wrote:be careful what you wish for, you might have to wait for another year for the next update if Shane gets the idea of changing the GUI to be more Amplitube like :)

i already voiced this, but i'll repeat - some kind of differentiation will be nice. like, maybe a different color faceplate and text, maybe different knob graphics, but nothing too drastic or 3D or whatever. just so i can visually distinguish between the amps while keeping the current superior readability and usability.
That's a suggestion I made previously... "a diamond plate background with chrome dome knobs here, a gold background with black/gold knobs there, a brushed silver background with chicken head knobs there".... :D
Remember the iLokalypse Summer 2013

Samples and presets and free stuff!

KVRist
184 posts since 3 Mar, 2014 from Bosnia

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:51 pm

Dominus wrote:
MrBongo wrote:

re the "digital resonance": maybe it´s your monitors´ tweeters that have a peak of certain annoyance, or simply the lack of surgical EQ?
Sounds like it could be a combination of things. I have a favorite IR, so I tend to tune my guitars (IE choosing components such as body wood, fretboard material, pickups, etc) that work the best with it.

I think he mentioned using an E-Mu 1212. Could be the input on that. I know I had one guitar that overloaded the input on an M-Audio 410 for no reason whatsoever. (All the other guitars were fine, and it was a "medium" output pickup on that guitar.)
Hello.Thanks for yor comments.

I use Adam A7X,so I doubt it can cause the problem.As for guitar I changed few for years,and music cards,I always had that the same issue.

Currently the only guitar that I use is Music Man JP7 with custom made pickups to suits my personal taste and to complement guitar specs,so I doubt as well that would cause of any problems.

The only culprit I assume may be cheap music card.I investigated online a little bit and found actually there are many people who notice the same problem,and as well think its as emulation flaw known for ages.
One of examples:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... ances.html
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Know back to topic.I agree with Shane about gui.To me all that is matter that its intuitive.And he already achieve it.Imho.

Of course how it sounds is most important.

Cheers.

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KVRer
27 posts since 10 Aug, 2015 from UK

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:55 pm

Kazrog wrote: In other words: I have zero interest in revisiting the era of 3D rendered studio hardware in plugins. I've been there, I've done it, and I'm over it. If that's what you're looking for, there are a lot of plugin manufacturers still making that sort of thing.
Wow, Shane,

I get the idea that you do not wish to go all 3D and doesn't that look pretty, but I think most who have made suggestions are simply asking for a colour, possibly texture choice, and no more. If even that is asking too much then I for one can live without it.

If, however, it makes it easier for users to know quickly what amp they've got then I can also understand that point of view.

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KVRian

Topic Starter

766 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:52 pm

I'm still open to visual differentiation and even introducing a few different color scheme options and size options down the road. I just wanted to make it abundantly clear that I'm not interested in going backward visually.
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog

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KVRian

Topic Starter

766 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:00 pm

Back on topic to the released software itself, I'm almost done with the 5.0.1 update, which addresses some issues many users had noticed:
  • Crashes that have plagued many hosts in a variety of conditions have been eliminated completely.
  • Gain ranging/calibration of the entire set of 25 current amp models has been improved massively, with increased versatility (can go clean even on a lead channel, the entire range of gain knob is more meaningful/usable), control (10x the number of control points), and full backward compatibility with existing presets.
  • Mid gain sounds on various vintage amp models are smoother due to recalibrated vintage tube algorithms.
  • Factory presets have been sanity checked - many of them were too loud (I didn't realize I had made the vast majority of them with a fader pulled down in my host - oops. :)
Look for the update some time over the weekend. Thanks for your feedback!
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog

KVRist
171 posts since 30 Apr, 2012 from Wellington, NZ

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:08 pm

Kazrog wrote: Look for the update some time over the weekend. Thanks for your feedback!
Brilliant news - can't wait. I held off installing v5.0 because of the Sonar crash issue

KVRist
184 posts since 3 Mar, 2014 from Bosnia

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:24 pm

Paulnz wrote:
Kazrog wrote: Look for the update some time over the weekend. Thanks for your feedback!
Brilliant news - can't wait.
Second that.

KVRist
73 posts since 22 May, 2014

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:43 pm

+1 on the noise gate requests. Tried using the stock gate in Studio One and it's average at best. Not a fan of sticking Guitar Rig or Revalver in front of Recabinet either. Guess it works for now, but it'd be great if the rack unit had a built in gate (at some point) :)

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KVRer
22 posts since 22 Jan, 2016

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:57 pm

Noise Gate: Have a look at DMG Expurgate.

KVRist
184 posts since 3 Mar, 2014 from Bosnia

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:37 pm

I stumble on this.

Listen some demos and thoughs by Pete Thorn.SUHR loadbox,despite it works like any loadbox they came with solution to listend how amp react and translate this non linearity to Ir`s by your choice.

So that way ir`s react to your playing and push the"air"so to speak.

I recall this interaction could be emulated somewhere in the future.I know Recabinet doing something similar,but I do not know if it work like this way,or using different approach?

I would dearly buy this as separate plugin if it do wonders to Ir`s. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i770M9pM0_k
Last edited by Studiostriver on Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KVRist
414 posts since 30 Oct, 2014

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:38 pm

Looking forward to the update. :tu:

User avatar
KVRer
22 posts since 22 Jan, 2016

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:34 pm

Studiostriver wrote:...they came with solution to listend how amp react and translate this non linearity to Ir`s by your choice.

So that way ir`s react to your playing and push the"air"so to speak.

I recall this interaction could be emulated somewhere in the future.I know Recabinet doing something similar,but I do not know if it work like this way,or using different approach?

I would dearly buy this as separate plugin if it do wonders to Ir`s. :)
Here's some reality imho: Some plugs, and even some hardware such as AxeFx, try to simulate speaker drive and/or motor drive. All cab IRs are basically a static filter, a capture in time, no other magic to it really. Try to keep perspective that an ampsim/load box running into a cab IR loader is really just simulating a mic'd combination. Mic'd amp/cabs are so much different than that of "amp in room" feel. WoS did not break any new ground regarding this "emulation". It's important to keep this in perspective. If you want the "amp in room" feel deal, then run your amp sim/loader into a flat power amp into an actual cab. When you run to FOH, you will likely either mic your physical cab or run a sim (hardware or software) - and thus is your audience and/or recording perspective. As an onstage player, if you want the "feeling" of amp air, use your backline. Just remember it's only for you, not your audience, that gets most of that backline sound (front row groupies not withstanding). That's my 5th Crown&Coke take on it. Everyone's mileage varies.

KVRist
184 posts since 3 Mar, 2014 from Bosnia

Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:40 pm

Savage1969 wrote:
Studiostriver wrote:...they came with solution to listend how amp react and translate this non linearity to Ir`s by your choice.

So that way ir`s react to your playing and push the"air"so to speak.

I recall this interaction could be emulated somewhere in the future.I know Recabinet doing something similar,but I do not know if it work like this way,or using different approach?

I would dearly buy this as separate plugin if it do wonders to Ir`s. :)
Here's some reality imho: Some plugs, and even some hardware such as AxeFx, try to simulate speaker drive and/or motor drive. All cab IRs are basically a static filter, a capture in time, no other magic to it really. Try to keep perspective that an ampsim/load box running into a cab IR loader is really just simulating a mic'd combination. Mic'd amp/cabs are so much different than that of "amp in room" feel. WoS did not break any new ground regarding this "emulation". It's important to keep this in perspective. If you want the "amp in room" feel deal, then run your amp sim/loader into a flat power amp into an actual cab. When you run to FOH, you will likely either mic your physical cab or run a sim (hardware or software) - and thus is your audience and/or recording perspective. As an onstage player, if you want the "feeling" of amp air, use your backline. Just remember it's only for you, not your audience, that gets most of that backline sound (front row groupies not withstanding). That's my 5th Crown&Coke take on it. Everyone's mileage varies.

Did you watch the whole video?I did not talk about WOS.I know what it does.This SUHR loadbox by"some" method made"something"in that thing that makes amps react more with ir`s and make them interract more with playing.

Watch and listen at the end of the video.

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