My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

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fairlyclose
KVRist
268 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:18 pm

practise to a groove rather than a click, if you want to develop a groove style of playing. Practising to a click is great for classical musicians, but to an actual rhythm much better if that is what you want to play. Also it is worth internalising the rhythm (aka dance) and having that running inside your head/body before you start playing. Don't start and stop and restart. Start with the rhythm already well and truly going and if you make a mistake, fine, but keep that rhythm going and come back playing in time and in sync with the song position. Never start and stop that internal rhythm while you are playing or recording.
I heard that tip from a flamenco guitarist who was an absolute master of rhythm. Improved my playing no end

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The Noodlist
KVRian
1465 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:47 am

fairlyclose wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:18 pm
Also it is worth internalising the rhythm (aka dance) and having that running inside your head/body before you start playing.
Foot tapping for internal rhythm is also an option. I believe to play off beat and swing to a groove, one needs the ability to play on the beat straight, can't play off without knowing how to play on.
Currently trying to turn noise into music. :neutral:

fairlyclose
KVRist
268 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:03 am

The Noodlist wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:47 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:18 pm
Also it is worth internalising the rhythm (aka dance) and having that running inside your head/body before you start playing.
Foot tapping for internal rhythm is also an option. I believe to play off beat and swing to a groove, one needs the ability to play on the beat straight, can't play off without knowing how to play on.
depends what you mean by beat - rhythmic structures are not at all metronomically regular in most of the worlds music - they are precise and sophisticated but they aren't metronomic. Hard But you have to be able to actually play for sure - it is an insult to all those people who really can play to think it doesn't take effort

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Unaspected
KVRian
1170 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:12 am

Are you over-thinking things? It reads as though this is something that troubles you enough to throw your timing - maybe unconsciously. Meditation might help. Finding a way not to care or think about it. What you play should be pure muscle memory anyway. So you should be at live performance level before thinking to record - perform the song at least 200 or so times before tracking.

Don't worry about nailing any take. Just set up your session to loop record and keep playing. Forget you are recording and enjoy playing.

tapper mike
KVRAF
5224 posts since 20 Jan, 2008

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:43 am

Here are a few things.....

When you make a mistake and continue to make that same mistake, the mistake becomes a habit. Bad habits are hard to overcome it's best to nip them in the bud. This is why it's important to practice slowly and not focus on only the part of a passage you like. Which gets back into... Practice in the morning when your mind isn't filled up with a lot of things and you can concentrate on performing well over performing fast. At night our mind tends to wander too much.

Also rethink and apply your picking technique. Most of us start off with something that may feel comfortable but not the best technique for accuracy. What's worse is that teachers usually state, play what feels best for you. Start with working on picking technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NHqRj_9QM8

Also check out Troy Grady's other lessons on pick slanting as well.

With regards to classical musicians and timing... Umm no they suck
https://youtu.be/rEbUNDW9bDA?t=186
Jump to the 3:06 time marker or enjoy the entire video.

Also see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEFi4SatXso

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Russell Grand
KVRAF
2283 posts since 22 May, 2017

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:09 am

:lol:

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skipscada
KVRian
1448 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:11 am

vurt wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:43 am
tapper mike wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:35 am
A lot of jazz musicians work on slowing tempos down then... work at being ahead (pushing) or behind (dragging) the beat. This is something that will help every artist.

Also... Practice in the morning Perform at Night.
good tip :tu:

dont worry about your timing and tell everyone its jazz :)
Or rubato

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vurt
addled muppet weed
56678 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:15 am

nice with custard :tu:

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Forgotten
KVRAF
7202 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:23 am

I liked that show as a kid

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15384 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:24 am

vurt wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:15 am
nice with custard :tu:
:lol:

fese
KVRian
1036 posts since 14 Sep, 2004 from $HOME

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:26 am

Chris Walton wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 pm
Yup, as title says.

Been playing guitar forever, mostly in my bedroom just noodling, and now that I'm trying to record some more "serious" things I'm noticing more and more my deficiencies in this area. In particular the following: My timing tends to be mostly correct in context with each other, but I have a tendency to consistently pick early. Even funkier, when I'm trying to record a part and try to stay accurate, I tend to get the first 1-3 notes "correct" but then drift off into being consistently early again. Funnily enough, it usually sounds okay-ish while recording, but then sounds bananas during playback. It's not a sound card issue, as I've been able to reproduce this on several setups, and it also happens when I play on the MIDI controller (so really it's not specific to guitar but that's the important instrument).

This seems to be ingrained into my brain and I have no idea how to break out of this. Any tips?
I hear you... similar with me, especially when recording I tend to drift off, but I'm not even consistent at it. :( I never had a good feeling for timing (I'm pretty good with melodies and harmonies though).
My problem is that I am very easily bored and distracted, especially with repetitive tasks, and that combined with a general perfectionism and putting pressure on myself leads to sucky recordings, regardless of the instrument.
I haven't yet solved it, partly because I am not good at practising (easily bored and .... see above).
Most promising seems to be, as others wrote, body movement, combined with verbalization, which my vocal coach showed me. So not even practising at the instrument, get on your feet, walk in one spot to a metronome or drum track, one step for each quarter note, then speak rhythm syllables over it (there's several systems, just pick one https://makemomentsmatter.org/classroom ... e-and-why/). Can be made harder by adding clapping to it.
I should do that more often...

sjm
KVRAF
1985 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:01 am

Chris Walton wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 pm
My timing tends to be mostly correct in context with each other, but I have a tendency to consistently pick early. Even funkier, when I'm trying to record a part and try to stay accurate, I tend to get the first 1-3 notes "correct" but then drift off into being consistently early again.
Are you monitoring your guitar playing through your DAW?

If so, this is just latency. What is happening is that that by monitoring the sound through your DAW, you are delaying your guitar sound slightly - in the range of milliseconds - so it's sounding late to your ears. You can hear that you are late, so to compensate you shift your playing ever so slightly forwards so that the sound you hear is in time with the rest of the music. But it takes you a short while to adjust, because the first few hits are timed "right", i.e. without you shifting your playing sightly to compensate for the delay.

This isn't actually a bad thing, if the timing is consistent, then you are playing in time. And it shows that you have the ability to subtly adjust your playing to match the music. Those are good qualities to possess.

You can just shift the recording until it's aligned properly. And then you may still need to address the first few notes individually...
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)

https://soundcloud.com/steevm/

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skipscada
KVRian
1448 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:08 am

vurt wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:15 am
nice with custard :tu:
:dog: :lol:

mjudge55
KVRist
176 posts since 8 Sep, 2005 from Seattle

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:27 am

I noticed about a year ago I have the same bad habit. Part of the issue, I believe, is bad technique from being self taught, body and mind rigid and tense, causing me to jump the gun at the start of measures, then overcompensate near the end. I also notice picking hand and fretting hand synchronization is off, pick hand gets ahead. As a take goes on I get better. A few things that seem to help:

1. Just being aware of the problem and monitoring it as I play helps. I continually remind myself to relax and not worry that I can’t keep up with the tempo, since I know I have a tendency to be early.
2. Metronome practice. Turn metronome volume down so that I can only hear it when my timing is off or there’s a rest on the beat. Use 8th note pulses to check subdivision evenness. Start very slow.
3. Establish picking speed during count in by picking muted notes at the pulse of the tune.
4. Fix any bad guitar technique.
5. Avoid over and under caffeination.
6. Foot tapping while playing, but don’t become dependent on it.
7. Listen for other musician’s timing issues or feel. Clap and tap to songs you hear.

After all the above I still suck, but less than a year ago.

fese
KVRian
1036 posts since 14 Sep, 2004 from $HOME

Re: My timing is precise but ... inaccurate.

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:02 am

mjudge55 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:27 am
5. Avoid over and under caffeination.
Nice one! It's not me, it's the lack of coffee :D

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