Hive 2.0

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Ivan_C
KVRian
1092 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Breuillet, France

Post Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:13 am

So I didn't use MIDI Learn anywhere at all, I have just configured my JOUE controller in the MIDI settings of Reaper (Windows) and that's all, no MIDI Learn / MPE or anything is enabled there. In the desktop app which comes with my controller, I can set the MIDI channels of the keys to play notes and any control for the mod wheel on separate MIDI channels.

In Hive 2.0, I have just loaded up the plug-in with the default arp preset which is there at startup. On the Reaper associated track, I set the input as MIDI: All MIDI inputs: All channels.

Now, if the MIDI channel for both the keys and MW in my controller are on MIDI channel 2, I can play notes, I can move the MW in Hive 2.0 UI, but nothing happens at all because of the MW on the sound. And I can't see the MW signal in the scope. But if I move the MW on the UI, or set the MIDI Channel for the mod wheel on my controller at MIDI channel 1, the sound is modulated by the control as expected. The MIDI channel information is not wrong either because as I said I can filter everything per channel in Reaper and prevent other MIDI channels than the ones I'm playing with to be either seen in Hive 2.0.

I have no explanation about that issue, it might be something related with Reaper on Windows which behaves very often differently from Reaper on mac OS...

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3243 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:38 pm

So after using Hive 2 for some time, i must say its really hard to get used to mirrored layout. Why you did that Urs? its very confusing. Maybe add alternative layout skin with future update?

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Urs
u-he
23754 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:09 pm

Elektronisch wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:38 pm
So after using Hive 2 for some time, i must say its really hard to get used to mirrored layout. Why you did that Urs? its very confusing. Maybe add alternative layout skin with future update?
As I wrote, the alternative looks even more confusing.

We are working with an external designer to add an extra skin, hopefully later this year.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3243 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:14 am

Urs wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:09 pm
Elektronisch wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:38 pm
So after using Hive 2 for some time, i must say its really hard to get used to mirrored layout. Why you did that Urs? its very confusing. Maybe add alternative layout skin with future update?
As I wrote, the alternative looks even more confusing.

We are working with an external designer to add an extra skin, hopefully later this year.
I see. I think for this kind of synth tabbing is needed. Maybe same style as sylenth has. Layer 1 tab and layer 2.

Alao can you add global pitch destination?

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Urs
u-he
23754 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:33 am

Elektronisch wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:14 am
Urs wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:09 pm
Elektronisch wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:38 pm
So after using Hive 2 for some time, i must say its really hard to get used to mirrored layout. Why you did that Urs? its very confusing. Maybe add alternative layout skin with future update?
As I wrote, the alternative looks even more confusing.

We are working with an external designer to add an extra skin, hopefully later this year.
I see. I think for this kind of synth tabbing is needed. Maybe same style as sylenth has. Layer 1 tab and layer 2.

Alao can you add global pitch destination?
When it's tabbed like Sylenth it needs half a dozen more knobs to globally modulate stuff across layers. The whole concept of Hive is about not doing that.

If you need a global pitch destination, why don't you just save a ModMatrix preset for it?

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18415 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:26 am

Say no to tabs!

Hive's concept is SPECIFICALLY about reducing tabbing to minimum. ESPECIALLY when dealing with oscillators. Sylenth is particularly bad in that regard (Dune as well), awful in fact. Hive is a polar opposite response to that.

Embrace the symmetry! :)

AnX
KVRAF
4903 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:35 am

yeah, reminds me of reading a book, having to turn all those ages... why cant they just print it on one long sheet?

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18415 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:40 am

Apples and oranges comparison there.

The proper comparison would be if you had one page in a book with half of the words on one page, and the other half on the other page after you turn it. :D

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12538 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:54 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:26 am
Say no to tabs!

Hive's concept is SPECIFICALLY about reducing tabbing to minimum. ESPECIALLY when dealing with oscillators. Sylenth is particularly bad in that regard (Dune as well), awful in fact. Hive is a polar opposite response to that.

Embrace the symmetry! :)
And how would you have 8 layers without "tabs" ? Symmetry is easy when it's paired with simplicity.....:wink:

Embrace the complexity ! :)

Anyway I'm looking forward to a new skin for Hive 2 with a more logical layout. I find the mirrored arrangement perfectly functional but annoyingly unpleasant. Hopefully satYatune is working on a great Hive 2 skin. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

dentnile
KVRist
157 posts since 4 Apr, 2013

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:46 am

Yes the mirrored layout makes it slower to operate because everything that has to be done in Osc 2 is not where it’s supposed to be (in my mind). Maybe the name of the synth does not have to dictate how it looks? I wish both Oscillator sections where on the left side of the UI.

cytospur
KVRian
1296 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:57 am

I think it makes perfect sense that it's symmetrical. I also think it comes down to how one's mind works. I guess you would say it's a Marmite GUI :hihi:
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.

Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18415 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:58 am

I fukken hate Marmite but love Hive's GUI :D

cytospur
KVRian
1296 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:09 am

Weirdo :roll: :hihi:
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.

Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
6507 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:15 am

Now I think the overall Hive GUI is great, and I wouldn't make massive changes to it all. But the thing that trips me up with the Hive GUI tends to be that the layout is only mirrored some of the time, and there are times when I wish it wasn't mirrored at all and others where I wish it was and it's not.

For instance, on the Oscs, the layout is mirrored. Sub controls are near the center, and oscillator controls are at the edges. I don't particularly like this layout for one big reason: I keep editing Sub2 volume when I mean to edit Osc2 volume. My brain is saying "Osc2 is before [to the left of] Sub2." So in that case, the GUI is mirrored and I'd prefer it weren't.

Now, when it comes to the filters, the GUI is not mirrored at all. I want the Filter 2 Cutoff and Resonance controls to be near the hexagon, with the input settings to the right of that, and the filter type to the right of that. It may make a bit less logical sense, and I get why they did it the way they did, but the Cutoff and Resonance knobs are the most important filter controls and putting them by the hexagon gives them the importance they deserve. So in this instance, I understand why they didn't mirror things but kind of wish they had.

I'd also flip Amp1 and Mod1 and go away from the mirroring so that the mod envelope was always on the left and the amp envelope always on the right. This is how my hardware controller is laid out and how most synths are laid out so my brain just defaults to Filter Env always on left, Amp Env always on right.

I've played around with mocking these changes up in a photo editor and it's not entirely trivial or without compromise (for instance, the Filter1 Cutoff and Resonance knobs need to come up vertically in order to make the Filter 2 knobs work near the hexagon), but it would just make more sense to me. Beyond that, I wouldn't change a thing. If I understood the skinning process better, I'd honestly just make those few small tweaks and make a customized skin for myself but I've never been able to figure out how to move a knob or fader position and corresponding graphics via the script or hidden GUI editor.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12538 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Hive 2.0

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:37 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:15 am
I'd also flip Amp1 and Mod1 and go away from the mirroring so that the mod envelope was always on the left and the amp envelope always on the right. This is how my hardware controller is laid out and how most synths are laid out so my brain just defaults to Filter Env always on left, Amp Env always on right.
Exactly this. :clap:

Several times I've been editing Osc 2's Mod Env thinking it was the Amp since it's on the left. Not a deal killer but I do find it annoying. In time it will become second nature but I'm not sure the point of an upgrade is to force people to learn a whole new workflow for features that were already there. Obviously there will always be a learning curve for new features.

After doing hundreds of patches for Hive 1 habits are formed and it can be somewhat unpleasant to relearn the flow.

Not a big deal but if I had a magic wand (or skinning talent) I would make a new skin that is not mirrored. I've already knocked the colors off the default which is the extent of my GUI "talent".

Hive 2 is my co-favorite plugin along with Dune 3 so no matter the GUI H2 will make it into all of my synth based projects and most likely multiple instances and I will continue to make patches for it.... :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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