Satin - Beta

[Urs]

I don't get why other companies are so secretive with their plugins and daws.

I think it's because in many companies it's the marketing guys who have the say. They often don't know what a new product does until they read a review.

[sascha]

It would be wonderful to have Satin hit the streets as something that is a Finished product (baring minor aftermarket revisions) and that can defeat the best tape models currently available.

No worries, we've already reached that stage, I guess

They often don't know what a new product does until they read a review.

Replace review with revenue and you have the decision makers above the marketing guys...

[Nielzie]

I don't get why other companies are so secretive with their plugins and daws.

I think it's because in many companies it's the marketing guys who have the say. They often don't know what a new product does until they read a review.

Bigger companies, yes. Some smaller companies either get into trouble fast at KVR for some reason (Tone2, XILS-lab, come to mind) or simply don't have much time on their hands to communicate with everyone online at KVR, Facebook, Twitter and what not

And some are just very quiet individuals (Lennard comes to mind)

[Urs]

I don't get why other companies are so secretive with their plugins and daws.

I think it's because in many companies it's the marketing guys who have the say. They often don't know what a new product does until they read a review.

Bigger companies, yes. Some smaller companies either get into trouble fast at KVR for some reason (Tone2, XILS-lab, come to mind) or simply don't have much time on their hands to communicate with everyone online at KVR, Facebook, Twitter and what not

Hmmm... IMHO the "trouble" that I've seen is mostly related to not having a company forum at KVR.

I know many devs who don't post here by choice, but who still have excellent support. Can't be too difficult

And some are just very quiet individuals (Lennard comes to mind)

Yeah, hmmm. This is the one case of that I don't understand at all. It feels like a piece is missing in the puzzle.

[snigelx]

It would be wonderful to have Satin hit the streets as something that is a Finished product (baring minor aftermarket revisions)...

No worries, we've already reached that stage, I guess

Alright then, full steam ahead. I can't wait to learn and experiment with it. Would it be possible to release the lovely manual ahead of the actual release or would is that just a stupid idea someone with a beer in-hand lounging in the garden might dream up?

[iamyourfather]

I feel responsible for this.

Can I remind myself and everyone that we dont needs synths to make beautiful music..

Todd.. over to you..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsezr0qi ... sHW5AVbw5g

Not sure how this helps the satin beta desperadoes since satin is a tape EMU and given the period that song was recorded I am fairly certain it benefitted from being recorded on... er.

:/

[Nielzie]

I know many devs who don't post here by choice, but who still have excellent support. Can't be too difficult

Yes, that's what I meant actually. Most give great and personal support to their customers, but besides that they choose to not post at KVR or other online communities or social media, because simply there is no time.

Very much respect for you to be able to do all that, although you have expanded your team a few times by now. A few years back it was only you.. Where would you find the time to code and besides all the other business stuff come here, facebook, youtube and what not to communicate with the crowd Bazille would take forever.. Oh wait..

[SWAN808]

looking fwd to trying this...

[Frantz]

What will the learning curve on this be? Are there presets that cover most needs or do you have to tweak dozens of controls to get good results?

[Urs]

What will the learning curve on this be? Are there presets that cover most needs or do you have to tweak dozens of controls to get good results?

For "normal use" you just drop a Satin onto each track and you'll hear the tape. You can also group all of those Satins. Then you step through the presets of a single Satin, and all Satins will join in. Or give different Satins different presets.

So, no, there's not much tweaking involved if you just want to "gel" your tracks. However anyone with a real tape machine can tweak Satin to behave reasonably close and send those presets to us. I think we'll have some realistic tape presets right from the start, and we'll have more in no time. And we'll also have presets for loads of virtual tapes, i.e. machines that don't exist but could have.

#---

On the tweak side one can do numerous tricks that have been kind of "lost" in the digital age. If you turn noise reduction on for recording but off for playback, you get a frequency-dependent compressor that may do magic to vocals. Unlike past-time tape machines, you can choose from different pre/post equalisation curves to tweak the result. This is a common past time recording trick rediscovered in a gloriously simple package. And that's just one of the things that's in there.

- Urs

[Frantz]

So, no, there's not much tweaking involved if you just want to "gel" your tracks.

Good. I'm suffering from complexity overload at the moment. Too many plugins, too little time. I don't want to have to read a 30 page manual to get results. What you're describing sounds great.

I think the mistake most developers make is adding extra controls because it's cheap to add them in software. The problem is the benefit in tweakability is negated by the decrease in usability. You need to take off your musician's hat and put on your engineering hat and spend hours fiddling around with something to get only marginal improvements in sound.

[electro]

What will the learning curve on this be? Are there presets that cover most needs or do you have to tweak dozens of controls to get good results?

For "normal use" you just drop a Satin onto each track and you'll hear the tape. You can also group all of those Satins. Then you step through the presets of a single Satin, and all Satins will join in.- Urs

That sounds right and how is the gain staging, -18db = 0dbVU? Do you have audio of dry multimicd drum kits showing various levels of saturation?

So, no, there's not much tweaking involved if you just want to "gel" your tracks. However anyone with a real tape machine can tweak Satin to behave reasonably close and send those presets to us. I think we'll have some realistic tape presets right from the start, and we'll have more in no time.

We also want to be able to lock to ips values 7.5, 15, 30.

[Howard]

From the privsional manual (sorry for the mangled layout due to direct copy/paste). Quote:

At the time of writing, Satin has the following features and specifications:
Internal sample rate 352 - 384kHz
(depends on project sample rate, 8-times oversampling at 44.1kHz)
Bias oscillator frequency: 118 - 128kHz
Bias level: variable, +/- 5 dB
Tape speed 7.5 - 30 ips (inches per second), continuous
Tape types
Vintage
Modern
Rec / repro standard EQ (separately selectable)
none / flat
IEC/CCIR 7.5 ips
IEC/CCIR 15 ips
NAB
AES 30 ips
Compander systems (in Studio mode, separate settings for rec heads and repro heads)
NR B
uhx Type I
uhx Type II
Frequency response (+/-2 dB) at 44,1kHz sample rate, -12dB input, pre-emphasis 50%
7,5ips 27Hz - 18kHz (IEC 7.5)
15ips 35Hz - 20kHz (IEC 15)
30ips 40Hz - 22kHz (AES 30)
Total harmonic distortion (at -20dB Input, 30ips, bias +2dB, AES30-EQ)
Vintage 2.4%
Modern 1.2%
Pre-emphasis (18kHz)
7.5ips 0 - 40dB
15ips 0 - 33dB
30ips 0 - 27dB
Maximum delay in Delay mode
667ms (7.5ips)
333ms (15ips)
167ms (30ips)
Input headroom 0 to +18db
Gap width (repro head) 1 - 5µm
Head bump (LF resonance) 0 - max. 8dB, typically 4dB
Crosstalk (@1kHz) -80 to -20db
Static tape noise -100 to -40dB
Asperity / modulation noise -100 to -50dB
VU reference level -12 to 0dBFS

[sascha]

That sounds right and how is the gain staging, -18db = 0dbVU? Do you have audio of dry multimicd drum kits showing various levels of saturation?

The internal staging is adjusted to give ~0.8 to 1% THD at -20dB input gain, at ideal bias for 1k (+4dB, afair). That said, any such reference level should say something about distortion figures, imo.
Satin has a useable gain range of +-20dB = 40dB, input & output, which should suit any situation.

We also want to be able to lock to ips values 7.5, 15, 30.

I'm not sure about 'we', at least my intention was to have the speed control act as a shaping tool for achieving a frequency response and spectral smear to taste. We don't have a dedicated lock feature, but I feel it isn't required, as 7.5ips is the knob at zero, 30ips is the max position, and 15 is the default on double-click.

[sascha]

I don't want to have to read a 30 page manual to get results.

Nah, you probably won't have to. I'm sure you'll achieve great results without. But should you need some in-depth info and background stuff, it's right there, and we tried to explain things as correct as possible, as we don't feel like having to disguise and do snake-oil talk.