Feature Request : MPE support

Official support for: u-he.com
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pdxindy
KVRAF
14215 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:06 pm

Urs wrote:Interesting. We have renamed our standard Breath / XPress modulation sources to Ctrl A/B with an option to set these to any MIDI Control Change message. Once new versions of any synths come out, these will have the option.

We still plan to release updates to everything this year, awaiting some final tweaks to UI response times and the usual internal and public testing cycles.
Thank You!! :tu:

Then I will be able to use u-he synths with Bitwig! :party: :party: :party:

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6184 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:43 am

Yes that’s will be great to be able to use timbre with u-he stuff in bitwig.

I hope to also see a global mono mode some day. No at the expense of the mono per channel, that can be useful. But maybe an additional setting. I still don’t know what the official way to handle that is supposed to be. Seems like most synths either go global mono or global poly yet react differently to notes received on the same channel. Now that the spec is finalized I wonder if there is anything explaining why different synths seem to react differently when receiving notes on the same channel. For example most, like synthmaster, u-he synths, legend and others, will treat any notes received in the same channel with the same expression as received from one note. So in Bitwig if one note ends but the release continues past when the next note begins, and the note note has a pitch bend or expression, it will apply to both (because Bitwig reuses the channel when a note ends, only using different channels for overlapping notes), which is annoying. The only ones that seem to separate the expressions somehow even when it is the same channel received is the Roli/fxpansion synths and falcon. And the Bitwig ones. At least with the u-he ones you can set it to mono, which at least will cut off a previous notes when a new one starts on the same channel so you won’t get multiple notes getting the expression that was meant for one note. Just have to use some delay/reverb for that extra tail if desired. I do the same thing with Omnisphere, setting each part to mono. Unfortunately though I also can’t use Omnisphere for global mono.
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User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
14215 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:14 am

pdxindy wrote:
Urs wrote:Interesting. We have renamed our standard Breath / XPress modulation sources to Ctrl A/B with an option to set these to any MIDI Control Change message. Once new versions of any synths come out, these will have the option.

We still plan to release updates to everything this year, awaiting some final tweaks to UI response times and the usual internal and public testing cycles.
Thank You!! :tu:

Then I will be able to use u-he synths with Bitwig! :party: :party: :party:
Sweet! The new internal Diva beta has both 48+/- Pitch and the new Midi A / B option

Finally can use Pitch, Pressure and Timbre with a u-he synth in Bitwig!

antcarrier
KVRist
42 posts since 22 Feb, 2017 from Australia

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:34 am

As a Linnstrument player, I actually feel that the biggest thing missing in u-he synths is actually velocity curve control. The way that u-he synths implement note per channel is in many ways better than many other 'mpe synths', and no doubt sound fantastic.

Unfortunately though, MPE controllers seem to respond much better to a linear velocity curve, which is currently only available in zebra AFAIK. In many ways, Zebra 'feels' more expressive to play than the other u-he synths, despite not having note per channel or MPE support (as a mono synth obviously, or with PB disabled). I tend to avoid velocity sensitivity in the other u-he synths because of this, and just use aftertouch.

To me, this is more important than features such as CC74. The whole point of MPE is having connection with the instrument, and velocity is the most basic type of musical expression. Got to have it feeling natural :) Please add a velocity curve control, or even just a linear curve switch. :)

Other features that would be of great benefit to MPE players would be the ability to control sustain with AT, and release with release velocity. But that's a whole other thing, haha. Velocity curves are more important :)

More mod mappers in repro, and even mod mappers in a future version of diva, would be great for MPE players!

PS, thanks for your cool synths!

thedommer2000
KVRer
15 posts since 24 Feb, 2018

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:50 am

Just found this thread. I picked up a Linnstrument yesterday and I was just about to dive into figuring out how this works with repro 5. Seems this thread has been going on for a few years. So quick question. Is there MPE support yet? and if not, does anyone have a setup guide for getting MPE type controls to work on the Linnstrument. Thanks!

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14215 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:07 am

thedommer2000 wrote:Just found this thread. I picked up a Linnstrument yesterday and I was just about to dive into figuring out how this works with repro 5. Seems this thread has been going on for a few years. So quick question. Is there MPE support yet? and if not, does anyone have a setup guide for getting MPE type controls to work on the Linnstrument. Thanks!
What DAW are you using?

thedommer2000
KVRer
15 posts since 24 Feb, 2018

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:25 am

pdxindy wrote:
thedommer2000 wrote:Just found this thread. I picked up a Linnstrument yesterday and I was just about to dive into figuring out how this works with repro 5. Seems this thread has been going on for a few years. So quick question. Is there MPE support yet? and if not, does anyone have a setup guide for getting MPE type controls to work on the Linnstrument. Thanks!
What DAW are you using?
Studio One 3

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
14215 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:59 am

thedommer2000 wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
thedommer2000 wrote:Just found this thread. I picked up a Linnstrument yesterday and I was just about to dive into figuring out how this works with repro 5. Seems this thread has been going on for a few years. So quick question. Is there MPE support yet? and if not, does anyone have a setup guide for getting MPE type controls to work on the Linnstrument. Thanks!
What DAW are you using?
Studio One 3
Studio One does not support MPE itself... I assume you would have to use multiple instances of the synth each with the same preset and each receiving a different midi channel. With that method, any synth will work, including all the u-he synths.

I'm on a Mac and use Logic and Bitwig. The u-he synths (except Zebra2) work great using MPE in Logic with my Linnstrument. The u-he synths don't support release velocity. Otherwise full functionality.

Bitwig is not as flexible as Logic and so currently the u-he synths don't work in the Y axis (Timbre). An internal Diva beta now supports Y axis in Bitwig (via CC#74) so that should be available relatively soon with the other synths to follow whenever they next receive an update.

Ah_Dziz
KVRAF
2357 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:00 pm

Id love to see release velocity implemented more than any other bit of MPE. Using it to change effect parameters is great for realtime playing. All the other parts are easy workarounds with midi processing including faking the global channel. Being able to jack the delay feedback and mix parameters up at the end of a phrase though using release velocity is not something I’ve found a way to do without direct support of release velocity. It may just be that I suck at using the input transformer in cubase, but having release velocity as a source for modulation would be amazing in UHe and all other synths. Even many of the synths that say that they “support MPE fully” don’t support this at the moment. Really just equator, strobe 2 and Cypher 2.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6184 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:14 am

pdxindy wrote: ...Finally can use Pitch, Pressure and Timbre with a u-he synth in Bitwig!
And now with Bitwig 2.4 you can also use mpe messages in mono mode for u-he synths since it stores the channel received, as well as not worrying about multiple notes getting the same modulations because of channel recycling!
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User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
14215 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:27 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
pdxindy wrote: ...Finally can use Pitch, Pressure and Timbre with a u-he synth in Bitwig!
And now with Bitwig 2.4 you can also use mpe messages in mono mode for u-he synths since it stores the channel received, as well as not worrying about multiple notes getting the same modulations because of channel recycling!
Yes! It's really coming together!! Now all I need is Bazille to get CC74 and +/- 48 Pitchbend option. Once Bazille update comes, I can just stick with Bitwig

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6184 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:17 am

pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
pdxindy wrote: ...Finally can use Pitch, Pressure and Timbre with a u-he synth in Bitwig!
And now with Bitwig 2.4 you can also use mpe messages in mono mode for u-he synths since it stores the channel received, as well as not worrying about multiple notes getting the same modulations because of channel recycling!
Yes! It's really coming together!! Now all I need is Bazille to get CC74 and +/- 48 Pitchbend option. Once Bazille update comes, I can just stick with Bitwig
Yeah Bazille seems like it would really be the best with mpe. I’ve been on the fence about getting it for ages. Not because I doubt it’s quality but more as self-restraint and using what I have. I should get more use out of other mpe/fm-capable synths like Equator, Poly-Ana and Bitwig’s Phase-4. Plus I have and enjoy BazilleCM. And Reaktor blocks does it for me for the modular experiment stuff. So Bazille has always been that one that I just haven’t quite been able to convince myself I need. However for some mpe stuff it can be crucial to have modulation curves, which I really only ever need for initial aftertouch offset. And of my mpe synths only Equator can do this. If I’m not mistaken Bazille’s mapping generator can be used like Equator’s modulation curves?
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17163 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:22 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:If I’m not mistaken Bazille’s mapping generator can be used like Equator’s modulation curves?
Yep, it can.

Also doesn't Strobe 2 also have these response curves, too?

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
14215 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:47 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
pdxindy wrote: ...Finally can use Pitch, Pressure and Timbre with a u-he synth in Bitwig!
And now with Bitwig 2.4 you can also use mpe messages in mono mode for u-he synths since it stores the channel received, as well as not worrying about multiple notes getting the same modulations because of channel recycling!
Yes! It's really coming together!! Now all I need is Bazille to get CC74 and +/- 48 Pitchbend option. Once Bazille update comes, I can just stick with Bitwig
Yeah Bazille seems like it would really be the best with mpe. I’ve been on the fence about getting it for ages. Not because I doubt it’s quality but more as self-restraint and using what I have. I should get more use out of other mpe/fm-capable synths like Equator, Poly-Ana and Bitwig’s Phase-4. Plus I have and enjoy BazilleCM. And Reaktor blocks does it for me for the modular experiment stuff. So Bazille has always been that one that I just haven’t quite been able to convince myself I need. However for some mpe stuff it can be crucial to have modulation curves, which I really only ever need for initial aftertouch offset. And of my mpe synths only Equator can do this. If I’m not mistaken Bazille’s mapping generator can be used like Equator’s modulation curves?
Yeah... you can use the mappers for that.

Mostly, I have rethought my use of AT and assign it to parameters where I don't mind if a bit of it activates on keypress. So a bit of aftertouch on some notes just adds a pleasing variability. And yeah, sometimes the mapper is necessary to shape AT and or velocity.

I find Bazille amazing for MPE stuff. Because it is so easy to make all sorts of audio-rate feedback loops, it has wonderful non-linear responses that it is even better when per note. Plus it has amazing sound quality. It has so much organic character...

https://dandelionaudio.com/sound/B-Melonkey.mp3
https://dandelionaudio.com/sound/B38.mp3

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6184 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Feature Request : MPE support

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:57 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:If I’m not mistaken Bazille’s mapping generator can be used like Equator’s modulation curves?
Yep, it can.

Also doesn't Strobe 2 also have these response curves, too?
Yeah strobe as well. I just don’t have that and am not that into it.
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