u-he refurbished Preset Browser discussion

[aMUSEd]

It's not a perfect world, there is no system that is going to work perfectly for everyone but a consistent system that tries to cover as much as possible is the only workable system for shared stuff. Unfortunately now that user based NKS conversion has really taken off (which is good overall) it has indeed led to a chaotic library, I recently spent a whole weekend reducing the absolute clutter of tags that has grown up on my local system due to importing libraries others have converted without adhering to a common system, so one person says 'Pad' and other "Pads', one 'Multi-Fx, another 'Multi FX', yet another 'Multi Effects' and so on, you can't blame individuals they all think their way is best because it makes sense to them - it's a tragedy of the commons thing.

I'm all in favour of people being able to tag locally stuff their own way, but at least for a common shared system there needs to be some agreed conventions and standards. OK this is turning into political science

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

There's an obvious balance between usability and flexibility that's applicable to this discussion. As someone new to Omnisphere, I really dislike their tagging system. There are way too many tags and subcategories, which makes it difficult to find what I'm looking for. And I don't own any third-party content, this is straight from the factory.

I requested user-definable tags for the U-he browser early on, but honestly, my opinion on the matter has changed. I'd rather have a curated list that makes sense that forces third-party developers and end-users to adhere to. It helps keeps things tidy. If a hip hop producer cares about 707's and 808's and a classical producer cares about flugel horns, then include that in that information in the patch names or notes, which allows for text searching. You could do a search for Drums -> Synthetic + "707" and quickly hone in on those patches. User created tags means I'd buy a third-party library, and someone with a completely different tagging methodology than my own would destroy the order of my tagging library. Limiting the tagging options prevents this, and basically forces the end users to adhering to a single tagging system.

So to U-he, I take back my request for custom tags, you guys were right. But if I could still rename favorouites, that'd be great!

[aMUSEd]

Yes Omnisphere is a prime example of unusable tag bloat, only they did it themselves

[Biome_Digital]

No. Zebra 2.8 disappointingly got the new browser but without the tagging features. I believe the reason was that there are just too many existing presets to tag, so they didn't bother. I do wish it was at least provided but with no tagged presets so user's could just tag their own. Combine that with bulk tagging of presets, and it would've been perfect.

We'll be discussing "community effort" at some point, and maybe then we'll figure out how to get ten thousand presets tagged without putting a co-worker or two in asylum.

lol,

[aMUSEd]

No. Zebra 2.8 disappointingly got the new browser but without the tagging features. I believe the reason was that there are just too many existing presets to tag, so they didn't bother. I do wish it was at least provided but with no tagged presets so user's could just tag their own. Combine that with bulk tagging of presets, and it would've been perfect.

We'll be discussing "community effort" at some point, and maybe then we'll figure out how to get ten thousand presets tagged without putting a co-worker or two in asylum.

lol,

You would think so but a community effort can get a lot done. All the Zebra Factory presets have already been tagged and converted to NKS by our busy team of NKS convertors over on the NI forum, as well as several of the free Patchlib banks, and personally I have also converted and tagged a fair chunk of my private collection (including the latest by Howard) for my own use (and no, before anyone asks, I can't release those). This is all unofficial of course, Zebra is not totally compatible with NKS and won't be till Z3 but it does the job and shows that it is possible to get a large quantity of presets tagged by a dedicated and motivated online team.

We did the same back in the Kore days, converting all the factory Kontakt content and a lot of the addons to Koresounds after NI abandoned it, in just a few weeks.

[djmani]

the old preset browser works fine in zebra..
it worked fine for years, such a stupid idea to change it .

it's Always the same formula...add more and more useless features, bigger filesize and consume more resources.

everyone wants instant gratification...
maschine and komplete control is so the easiest path with no skills or talent
why waste resources on NKS....
it's not like native instruments is the innovative company it was 15 years ago.
And I just love my hard drive filled with crap like nks

[Russell Grand]

Am I the only one who isn't a fan of the new preset browser? I much prefer the old one. Simple is better.

[zvenx]

@djmani and @russell grand, just curious, what is preventing you from using the new preset browser exactly how you used the old one?

I couldn't disagree with you both more, for years the preset browser was the Achilles heel in u-he's synth to me and quite a few other people.
rsp

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

@djmani and @russell grand, just curious, what is preventing you from using the new preset browser exactly how you used the old one?

I couldn't disagree with you both more, for years the preset browser was the Achilles heel in u-he's synth to me and quite a few other people.
rsp

Exactly this. If somone doesn't want to use the tagging and search features of the new browser, they don't have to. No need. At that point, it works just like the old browser.

The tagging, search features, favourites that actually do something...I'd never go back personally. This is one of the best preset browsers I've used, if not the best.

Also, the complaint about instant gratification is a bit silly in any conversation about presets. The whole point of presets is instant gratification in the first place (versus say, having to reprogram each patch from scratch). If you don't want tagging, or NKS, or instant gratification, then don't use these things. No one's forcing any of these features on the end-user, who can opt out by simply ignoring them.

If you're going to consrtuctively critique the browser and offer improvements, then I'd be all ears, but otherwise, this discussion falls very much into "old man yells at clouds" territory.

[zvenx]

@djmani and @russell grand, just curious, what is preventing you from using the new preset browser exactly how you used the old one?

I couldn't disagree with you both more, for years the preset browser was the Achilles heel in u-he's synth to me and quite a few other people.
rsp

Exactly this. If somone doesn't want to use the tagging and search features of the new browser, they don't have to. No need. At that point, it works just like the old browser.

The tagging, search features, favourites that actually do something...I'd never go back personally. This is one of the best preset browsers I've used, if not the best.

Also, the complaint about instant gratification is a bit silly in any conversation about presets. The whole point of presets is instant gratification in the first place (versus say, having to reprogram each patch from scratch). If you don't want tagging, or NKS, or instant gratification, then don't use these things. No one's forcing any of these features on the end-user, who can opt out by simply ignoring them.

If you're going to consrtuctively critique the browser and offer improvements, then I'd be all ears, but otherwise, this discussion falls very much into "old man yells at clouds" territory.

Exactly this
rsp

[Russell Grand]

The great part of a forum is that we can all have opinions and share them. I don't get the constant put-downs here when I have a legitimate issue with something.

Now, the first issue I have with the new brower is that it takes 3 times as long to open due to the scan time compared to the old browser. Everytime I open an instance of Zebra in a new project, I have to wait for this stupid scan.

My second gripe (and the one that bugs me most) is when I try to save a new patch or an altered version of an existing patch, that patch is saved into the "User" folder. With the old patch browser, I would save new or altered patches into different personalized folders depending on the sound type and that was awesome. However I can't do that now because every new patch I create automatically goes into the "User" folder, even if I try to send it to a folder of my choosing. For someone who is used to doing it a certain way, that gets annoying fast. With the new browser, I have to allow the new patch to be saved in the "User" folder and then manually move it into the folder of my choice. That's a major workflow killer for me.

I'm glad that others like the new version, but I don't. If there's something I'm missing, by all means please explain to me what I'm doing wrong. But unless I can go right back to the old way of working with the preset browser, I stand by my original statement: I'm not a fan of the new browser.

Old man yelling at clouds, out.

[drzhnn]

Unfortunately, while keeping all the features of the old browser, the new one feels quite different. In a bad way.

The main problem I have is that I keep accidentally moving folders around, instead of just selecting. Say, I'm in the middle of something, all inspired and stuff, and I want to just quickly load a patch from the location I know. So I go to preset browser, I click on that folder... but because I'm such a speedy guy, I guess, that folder just unexpectedly moves to the folder above. Or a couple folders above. And it's a showstopper for me. I drop everything and start moving things where they where before. And it isn't always possible from within the browser, so I have to use Explorer or Total Commander. And by the way, did you know you can accidentally move User folder to the Local folder? It happened to me several times. Not nice at all.

Don't get me wrong. I love the feature set of the new browser. Tags. favorites, smart search - they are brilliant. But it's the other small things that ruin it for me.

[zvenx]

The great part of a forum is that we can all have opinions and share them. I don't get the constant put-downs here when I have a legitimate issue with something.

Now, the first issue I have with the new brower is that it takes 3 times as long to open due to the scan time compared to the old browser. Everytime I open an instance of Zebra in a new project, I have to wait for this stupid scan.

My second gripe (and the one that bugs me most) is when I try to save a new patch or an altered version of an existing patch, that patch is saved into the "User" folder. With the old patch browser, I would save new or altered patches into different personalized folders depending on the sound type and that was awesome. However I can't do that now because ever new patch ayutomatically goes into the "User" folder, even if I try to send it to a folder of my choosing. For someone who is used to doing it a certain way, that gets annoying fast. With the new browser, I have to allow the new patch to be saved in the "User" folder and then manually move it into the folder of my choice. That's a major workflow killer for me.

I'm glad that others like the new version, but I don't. If there's something I'm missing, by all means please explain to me what I'm doing wrong. But unless I can go right back to the old way of working with the preset browser, I stand by my original statement: I'm not a fan of the new browser.

Old man yelling at clouds, out.

but both of your complaints can be fixed in the preferences...
There is an option to save in the selected
AND
an option to not scan on startup.
AND they are next to each other.

rsp

[Russell Grand]

The great part of a forum is that we can all have opinions and share them. I don't get the constant put-downs here when I have a legitimate issue with something.

Now, the first issue I have with the new brower is that it takes 3 times as long to open due to the scan time compared to the old browser. Everytime I open an instance of Zebra in a new project, I have to wait for this stupid scan.

My second gripe (and the one that bugs me most) is when I try to save a new patch or an altered version of an existing patch, that patch is saved into the "User" folder. With the old patch browser, I would save new or altered patches into different personalized folders depending on the sound type and that was awesome. However I can't do that now because ever new patch ayutomatically goes into the "User" folder, even if I try to send it to a folder of my choosing. For someone who is used to doing it a certain way, that gets annoying fast. With the new browser, I have to allow the new patch to be saved in the "User" folder and then manually move it into the folder of my choice. That's a major workflow killer for me.

I'm glad that others like the new version, but I don't. If there's something I'm missing, by all means please explain to me what I'm doing wrong. But unless I can go right back to the old way of working with the preset browser, I stand by my original statement: I'm not a fan of the new browser.

Old man yelling at clouds, out.

but both of your complaints can be fixed in the preferences...
There is an option to save in the selected
AND
an option to not scan on startup.
AND they are next to each other.

rsp

You, sir, are a saint!
I'll try out tonight. Thanks very much!

[zvenx]

The great part of a forum is that we can all have opinions and share them. I don't get the constant put-downs here when I have a legitimate issue with something.

Now, the first issue I have with the new brower is that it takes 3 times as long to open due to the scan time compared to the old browser. Everytime I open an instance of Zebra in a new project, I have to wait for this stupid scan.

My second gripe (and the one that bugs me most) is when I try to save a new patch or an altered version of an existing patch, that patch is saved into the "User" folder. With the old patch browser, I would save new or altered patches into different personalized folders depending on the sound type and that was awesome. However I can't do that now because ever new patch ayutomatically goes into the "User" folder, even if I try to send it to a folder of my choosing. For someone who is used to doing it a certain way, that gets annoying fast. With the new browser, I have to allow the new patch to be saved in the "User" folder and then manually move it into the folder of my choice. That's a major workflow killer for me.

I'm glad that others like the new version, but I don't. If there's something I'm missing, by all means please explain to me what I'm doing wrong. But unless I can go right back to the old way of working with the preset browser, I stand by my original statement: I'm not a fan of the new browser.

Old man yelling at clouds, out.

but both of your complaints can be fixed in the preferences...
There is an option to save in the selected
AND
an option to not scan on startup.
AND they are next to each other.

rsp

You, sir, are a saint!
I'll try out tonight. Thanks very much!

Most welcome... hope it works out for you.
rsp