Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

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Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
931 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:36 am

Thanks.

yemski
KVRian
673 posts since 2 Apr, 2004 from London

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:55 am

Here's a great resource for creating single cycle waves

http://scw.sheetsofsound.com/editor.html
Musicmaker: "I'm playing all the right notes, but not neccesarily in the right order" Eric Morecame : Comedy Bhoddisatva

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Sound Author
KVRian
608 posts since 8 Mar, 2008 from Crestview, Florida

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:33 am

8) ^^ VERY cool!

ZeePok
KVRian
1137 posts since 22 Aug, 2004 from Edge City, the Low Country

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:29 am

 
Great stuff, yemski. Thanks! :) :tu:

knowix
KVRist
242 posts since 12 Nov, 2011

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:00 am

Wavetable sound request*:

Whistle tone operatic female vocal*. If you've ever heard Sarajevo by Max Richter, you'll have heard its very ambiguous operatic vocal sound. I initially thought it was synthetic, but I read someone saying it was Patricia Rozario (can't find any online evidence of that actually).

When female vocals get that high they start to approach a clear thereminish sound. The kind of mixture of simplicity and complexity that might just suit a wavetable.

*because I won't be able to make it myself :ud:
*opera experts might disagree on my use of whistle tone to describe extremely high opera vocals.

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hakey
KVRAF
5185 posts since 25 Feb, 2008 from Babylon an ting

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:26 pm

The higher pitched a sound, the more it sounds like a pure sine wave (the harmonics lie above the limit of human hearing, so aren't heard).

A theremin is usually a sine wave (edit: it's actually a wave-shaped waveform), albeit modified by amplification. A distinctive feature of the sound a theremin produces is the vibrato/tremolo which, being entirely due to hand movement, has a human quality to it not unlike a singing voice.

Vibrato and tremolo cannot be captured by a wavetable.

Try a sine wave or a heavily filtered saw with some vibrato and tremolo (lfo*modwheel/aftertouch).
Last edited by hakey on Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Delta Sign
KVRian
630 posts since 22 Jun, 2018

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:05 pm

Yeah, that sound in Sarajevo is crazy. For the longest time I couldn't even figure out if it's a vocal or a violin (the portamento gives it away, though) :hihi:
The whole album is great. I love how everything is based on that one simple motif.

As hakey suggests, with such a sound, the expression is the most important part. Falsetto and whistle tone resisters also usually have a lot less overtones and dynamics than the median register, not only because the harmonics become too high, but also because of how the different body resonances of the human voice work. With falsetto singing, only a part of the vocal cords do all the work (basically), which transposes the voice up by one octave and contributes to the lack of overtones. Unless you are someone like Thom Yorke, it indeed often results in an almost sine like sound without a lot of controllable expression.

For a great example of falsetto done almost inhumanly well, listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHbHZOcpCZ0
Sorry for the off topic.
Back to making wavetables :D

yellowmix
KVRian
875 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from form morf frmo omfr romf

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:49 pm

knowix wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:00 am
Whistle tone operatic female vocal*. If you've ever heard Sarajevo by Max Richter, you'll have heard its very ambiguous operatic vocal sound. I initially thought it was synthetic, but I read someone saying it was Patricia Rozario (can't find any online evidence of that actually).
Grace Davidson in a live performance here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miw-uCCWk8E

Sarah Leonard is credited on the album, confirmed by Max Richter as the voice in Sarajevo: https://twitter.com/maxrichtermusic/sta ... 9943702529

yemski
KVRian
673 posts since 2 Apr, 2004 from London

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:06 am

Good example of this type of vocal by my boy Stui Love, on a track I was involved a few years back, ( I did the keys, string arrangement, and co-produced with DJ Survival aka Steve Kielty). For some reason I'm not credited here. The swines :-x Anyway, record company politics aside, the vocal technique kicks in at 5:16. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ed7rEt9QY

Stui was such a good singer, pity it didn't happen for him.
Musicmaker: "I'm playing all the right notes, but not neccesarily in the right order" Eric Morecame : Comedy Bhoddisatva

yemski
KVRian
673 posts since 2 Apr, 2004 from London

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:25 am

On the subject of Hive's Wavetables. Did a bit of experimenting last night and one thought that occurred to me was that you're gonna need more modulation sources. There's a reason why most of the wavetable synths I can think of, Europa, Serum, Sektor, Icarus, VPS Avenger, etc have numerous modulation sources. It just gives you the level of control that you need for this type of synthesis. A couple of msegs and/or multipoint lfos wouldn't go amiss, that's for sure. Check out some of the Serum patches I sent to Viktor and you'll get what I mean. Other than that, slight problem, (that I'm 100% sure you're working on), this is a great addition to a synth that has always been one of my favourite synths without this. As it is, I could see myself writing a load of patches with this. Spent hours experimenting just with the, relatively simple, modulation that's there now.
Musicmaker: "I'm playing all the right notes, but not neccesarily in the right order" Eric Morecame : Comedy Bhoddisatva

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Biome_Digital
KVRian
653 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:49 am

yemski wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:25 am
On the subject of Hive's Wavetables. Did a bit of experimenting last night and one thought that occurred to me was that you're gonna need more modulation sources. There's a reason why most of the wavetable synths I can think of, Europa, Serum, Sektor, Icarus, VPS Avenger, etc have numerous modulation sources. It just gives you the level of control that you need for this type of synthesis. A couple of msegs and/or multipoint lfos wouldn't go amiss, that's for sure. Check out some of the Serum patches I sent to Viktor and you'll get what I mean. Other than that, slight problem, (that I'm 100% sure you're working on), this is a great addition to a synth that has always been one of my favourite synths without this. As it is, I could see myself writing a load of patches with this. Spent hours experimenting just with the, relatively simple, modulation that's there now.
Completely agree, needs some modern LFO's so we can so do those hard bass wobbles. It's the only thing missing now I think.

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hakey
KVRAF
5185 posts since 25 Feb, 2008 from Babylon an ting

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:55 am

That's what's planned for Hive 2.0

viewtopic.php?p=7206122#p7206122

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Urs
u-he
23237 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:47 am

Hence the 2-step release. Make people familiar with the new sonic options, then add what's still needed.

It's going to seem "anemic" in comparison to what these other synths offer, but like I said a gazillion times before, there's a good chance that less is more.

yemski
KVRian
673 posts since 2 Apr, 2004 from London

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:48 am

Urs wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:47 am
Hence the 2-step release. Make people familiar with the new sonic options, then add what's still needed.

It's going to seem "anemic" in comparison to what these other synths offer, but like I said a gazillion times before, there's a good chance that less is more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WGOzIVoICY
Musicmaker: "I'm playing all the right notes, but not neccesarily in the right order" Eric Morecame : Comedy Bhoddisatva

yemski
KVRian
673 posts since 2 Apr, 2004 from London

Re: Tech Preview: Hive Wavetables

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:22 pm

Here's an arp patch I wrote using Serum WTs. For oscillator one I used a wavetable with various basic waveshapes mixed with a saw then skewed using the remap function of Serum. Oscillator 2 is sort of weird, kind of like an inverted sync sweep. There is probably a more correct nomenclature for this :? This has oscillator detune at about 25%. Both wavetables are swept using an lfo via a random source. This combination of random source with lfo is also applied to decay and release of the amp envelope, with seq also modulating filter and various other parameters. The seq is also set to 10 steps. These all combine to create an arp that while regular and repeating also has random elements, serving to make it more lively and less repetitious.

https://soundcloud.com/yemski/arp-test-1
Last edited by yemski on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Musicmaker: "I'm playing all the right notes, but not neccesarily in the right order" Eric Morecame : Comedy Bhoddisatva

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