Zebra 3 feature suggestions

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KVRist
67 posts since 3 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:56 am

Urs wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:19 am
Individual modules will become more complex. Some will be simplified. For instance, the LFOs will drop custom waveforms, but they will get some mighty good feature additions.
Honestly, this isn’t a big deal for those of us using a DAW like Ableton or Bitwig where you can use external modulator devices with your own custom waveform if you really need it. In fact, Zebra 3 with Bitwig’s modulators will be a digital, modular beast with a more streamlined workflow than traditional modular hardware/UI.

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KVRAF
21405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:01 am

Note that DAW modulators will always be limited to frequency defined by your audio interface buffer size, whereas modulators in plugin can be fully audio rate if need be.

KVRist
67 posts since 3 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:05 am

Urs wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:19 am
New modules will include per-voice spectral processors (EQ/Modal Synthesis/Resonators)
This has me very excited. I’ve been wanting an easier way to make physically-modeled drum sounds that aren’t the typical kick, snare, hi hat, etc. that you find on regular drum machines. I want to see what kind of crazy Taiko-like sounds this can create. I was super excited when you guys revealed the physical-modeling drum machine that had been under development, then I was super sad that it wasn’t going to be released as a stand-alone VST, then super excited again when you said you were implementing the tech in Zebra 3. There video I saw of the drum machine was very blurry, will the controls be similar to that of AAS Chromaphone 2?

KVRist
67 posts since 3 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:06 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:01 am
Note that DAW modulators will always be limited to frequency defined by your audio interface buffer size, whereas modulators in plugin can be fully audio rate if need be.
Huh. I hadn’t really noticed this was a limitation. Especially since Bitwig allows for audio-rate modulation all the way up to 50khz.

KVRist
67 posts since 3 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:08 am

Actually, I’m a little confused: what are you talking about when you say buffer size?

KVRAF

Topic Starter

1702 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:08 am

@EvilDragon but can I target them in the modmatrix? Couldn't find it.

EDIT: Nope, does not seem so. See, that's what I meant in my post, I also mentioned the XY pads. But targetable then. What a coincidence, I just read about ZebraHZ that the HZ just requested this feature. So will it come to the normal people's Zebra, too? :lol:
Last edited by Hanz Meyzer on Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF
21405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 am

Sure it can support 50 kHz, but you get aliasing above Nyquist for sure, unless plugins support sample-accurate automation (and there are very few that do - and it's only a VST3/AU thing. Possibly AAX as well). Even in case of sample-accurate automation, you would get a maximum of half the sample rate you're using for the project, anything above that is gonna alias. Unless you run your projects at 96 kHz or higher.
milesmaker wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:08 am
Actually, I’m a little confused: what are you talking about when you say buffer size?
ASIO/Core Audio buffer size. 512/256/128/64 samples, whatever.

KVRist
67 posts since 3 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:12 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 am
ASIO/Core Audio buffer size. 512/256/128/64 samples, whatever.
How does this scale? Like how do you calculate the max frequency for each buffer size?

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KVRAF
21405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:15 am

Project sample rate/buffer size gives you maximum speed of modulation in Hz. So in case of 44100 Hz project sample rate and 128 samples ASIO buffer size, you get a maximum of 344 Hz for modulation before it starts aliasing.

In case of sample accurate host automation (which again, many, many plugins do NOT support), then it's half the project sample rate (Nyquist frequency).

KVRist
67 posts since 3 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:11 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:15 am
Project sample rate/buffer size gives you maximum speed of modulation in Hz. So in case of 44100 Hz project sample rate and 128 samples ASIO buffer size, you get a maximum of 344 Hz for modulation before it starts aliasing.

In case of sample accurate host automation (which again, many, many plugins do NOT support), then it's half the project sample rate (Nyquist frequency).
Awesome, thank you! I just have to remember to up sample rate and lower latency when doing these kinds of modulations. Do the same rules apply if I want to freeze the track with the modulation instead of listening to it live with midi? As in, will it alias if the track is frozen instead of doing the modulation live?

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KVRAF
21405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:28 am

When you freeze stuff, things are rendered at your project sample rate.

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KVRAF
18460 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:44 am

milesmaker wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:56 am
Urs wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:19 am
Individual modules will become more complex. Some will be simplified. For instance, the LFOs will drop custom waveforms, but they will get some mighty good feature additions.
Honestly, this isn’t a big deal for those of us using a DAW like Ableton or Bitwig where you can use external modulator devices with your own custom waveform if you really need it. In fact, Zebra 3 with Bitwig’s modulators will be a digital, modular beast with a more streamlined workflow than traditional modular hardware/UI.
For me, the main limitation with external modulators is that they are global and not per voice.

Bitwig modulators are per voice for Bitwig instruments but not for VST's. Ableton not at all.

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KVRAF
18460 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:46 am

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:08 am
@EvilDragon but can I target them in the modmatrix? Couldn't find it.

EDIT: Nope, does not seem so. See, that's what I meant in my post, I also mentioned the XY pads. But targetable then. What a coincidence, I just read about ZebraHZ that the HZ just requested this feature. So will it come to the normal people's Zebra, too? :lol:
Just buy ZebraHZ and you got it!! Plus some other significantly cool features!

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KVRAF
18460 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:56 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 am
Sure it can support 50 kHz, but you get aliasing above Nyquist for sure, unless plugins support sample-accurate automation (and there are very few that do - and it's only a VST3/AU thing. Possibly AAX as well). Even in case of sample-accurate automation, you would get a maximum of half the sample rate you're using for the project, anything above that is gonna alias. Unless you run your projects at 96 kHz or higher.
And I think the control rate of the synth you are modulating makes a difference too yes?

Using Bitwig, I just tried taking a sine wave Osc in Zebra and put a sine LFO modulator at audio rate on the Zebra Osc tuning and then did the same thing with Bitwig's Phase-4 synth with a sine Osc. Wildly different result. Phase-4 sounds like I would expect... Zebra not.

KVRist
67 posts since 3 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:31 pm

Is there a way to delete comments so that we aren’t cluttering the requests thread with audio rate modulation discussion? 😆

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