Bazille 2

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I understand that it is "based" on the Roland System 100, but it is far from an emulation, with plenty of liberties taken.

Again, I am a big fan of Bazille and I can lose myself for hours playing it but there are reasons why it is not a top seller from the u-he family of synths even though on paper with that long list of great features it should be top 3. I also hate to admit that it is quite hard to make it sit nicely in a mix, it can overtake a full track quite easily.
ACE is much smoother.
That's why I suggested the EQ section of Filterscape VA, that can really help tame it while adding smooth motion to it
But then a strange fear gripped me
and I just couldn't ask....

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Garzita wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:42 am I also hate to admit that it is quite hard to make it sit nicely in a mix, it can overtake a full track quite easily.

Ok I gotta bite here, sorry.

I see this kind of statement pop up pretty regularly across various synth/plugin forums. Somebody asserts either "(synth x) is hard to make sit nicely in a mix" or "(synth x) is so easy to make sit nicely in a mix."

It strikes me as a really meaningless statement (whether positive or negative) because it presumes far too much (and thereby draws far too grandiose a conclusion) about that person's specific mixes relative to all people's mixes, and the roll the synth in question plays among both. And when you further consider the vast sonic range a synth can generate, the statement makes even less sense, because it generalizes all the possible sounds of a synth and makes a single statement about *all* of them: "it sits easily in a mix" wherein "it" is all the possible sounds that synth could make, however vastly different each sound could be from one another. Which, of course, just quickly disintegrates as any sort of a meaningful argument.

Which begs the question, to the people making such statements, and if such statements are going to have any sort of useful meaning: what are the specific, literal aspects of a given synth that make it "sit well in a mix" or "fail to sit will in a mix" ?

See what I mean? If we can't define that, and then extrapolate that this definition somehow applies to *all* sounds the synth can make and furthermore to *all* possible mixes it would be heard in.....

You see what am I getting at here?

It's a dubious claim at very best. Mostly likely it's just total BS. But I'd love to hear someone break it down for me meaningfully, if they can manage it!

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I can actually explain it and provide examples but it seems to me that you are more interested in arguing than hearing someone else's opinion and proof.
You come across quite on the aggressive side and I tend to not engage in arguments on the internet so... I already dont feel like contributing
But then a strange fear gripped me
and I just couldn't ask....

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While Bazille is capable of producing some really enormous CPU-sucking sounds with its layering, you can pretty much make any kind of sound you want depending on how you program and process it.

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Quite surprised to read your post Garzita, I’ve never had such issues myself with Bazille (or any u-he synth really). I suppose it really depends on how you use it and on the context ? I tend to have a minimalist approach, and intend to go for reduction rather than layers and layers of sounds, so I guess it helps. I love complex / dense harmonies but equally enjoy texture and sound-design, and Bazille has an organic quality that sounds amazing in a mix (and on its own) IMO. So I try to keep it all very spare.
I for one really don’t mind for internal fx as long as they don’t have patch points, no matter how good they are (because they are!). If I need a verb, I’ll reach for VVV or Goodhertz Megaverb. Delay ? ColorCopy or Permut8. And I have tons of saturators. Much more flexibility then.
As I already said, i’d just love a pristine mode with the cleanest OSCs and mods possible (Urs, you’ve raised expectations pretty high with the new .uhm WT ;)), and possibly more miltiplexes and all sorts of functions (the upcoming Hive 2 modulation section would be an amazing addition).
Anyway, Bazille is already my fave synth, hands down. This all would just be bonus to an already fantastic synth.
Computer musician / Ableton Certified Trainer / Mastering engineer
.com
3OP

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Ploki wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:16 pm Bazille doesn't know what kind of synth it is :)

It was inspired by Roland System 100, which itself has a Spring Reverb.
bazille was inspired by the system 100?

where did you you read that?

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AnX wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:22 am
Ploki wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:16 pm Bazille doesn't know what kind of synth it is :)

It was inspired by Roland System 100, which itself has a Spring Reverb.
bazille was inspired by the system 100?

where did you you read that?
for example:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/u-he-bazille
and by urs himself:
viewtopic.php?p=6933213#p6933213

As i said, inspired.
Garzita wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:42 am I understand that it is "based" on the Roland System 100, but it is far from an emulation, with plenty of liberties taken.

Again, I am a big fan of Bazille and I can lose myself for hours playing it but there are reasons why it is not a top seller from the u-he family of synths even though on paper with that long list of great features it should be top 3. I also hate to admit that it is quite hard to make it sit nicely in a mix, it can overtake a full track quite easily.
ACE is much smoother.
That's why I suggested the EQ section of Filterscape VA, that can really help tame it while adding smooth motion to it
i have all synths by u-he except Zebra2 (for now).
First was A.C.E then Repro, then Hive, then Diva, last Bazille.
I think the bazille is not selling as well because:
- ACE is cheaper and can already be overwhelming + it has an analogue ring to it.
- Soundbanks aren't all that common
- It's a pain in the ass to program compared to all other u-he synths (sans zebra)
- you can make a horrible sound really really easy with it. Turning a knob in a complex patch will not do what you expect if you don't read the manual or have previous knowledge of modular.
Literally, you only need to tweak a single OSC wrong without any modulators to make a full-spectrum noise. :D

i'm biased about built in FX, but i can understand your POV, since Serum's signature sound and concept is really FX heavy. Probably extreme case, but it's a good example of how much people rely on builtin FX.
(and ironically, it's the FX section of Serum that makes it sit horrible in any other than EDM context, and usually needs a lot of work to sit in a non-EDM mix)

Yes, Bazille needs more work and it's harder to tweak. Turning a knob is never as straightforward as on for example Hive or Repro, I guess lack of FX variety (compared to Repro) exacerbates that, but hey, that's why external effects are for. :)
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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:13 pm I do have one teeny, tiny feature request for Bazille and ACE, but it's more of a workflow/ergonomics thing: I wish I could Ctrl+Click or Alt+Click to move a cable by the output. Right now, only inputs can be clicked and dragged to be moved.

Feel free not to wait for Bazille 2 for that.
Ever felt so free to try right-click to drag from an output? If not, you should definitely try. :D

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ok, so inspired as in its modular. Ta.

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There seems to be confusion as to the Roland system 100.. my avatar is a Roland Sys 100... Urs refers to a System 100m... see the m, it was a completely different synth, much more modular than the 100... ant EDIT and// it had wooden ends and cables... about the only similarity 'tween it and Bazille. :dog:

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well, that, and the spring reverb. :D
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Ah yes.. I forgot
spring is just around the corner...
so rubber necking into sunshine
to revitalize_da_'erb

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sorry for hijacking this thread, but this synth becomes more fun every hour i spend with it
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nilhartman wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:04 am Quite surprised to read your post Garzita, I’ve never had such issues myself with Bazille (or any u-he synth really). I suppose it really depends on how you use it and on the context ? I tend to have a minimalist approach, and intend to go for reduction rather than layers and layers of sounds, so I guess it helps.
YES! you are correct as to the problem being the context and the surrounding instruments to it.

I play sometimes in a Disco band and have come up with some Moroder-like basslines in Bazille and it completely overshadows all other instrumentation, it is definitely very digital sounding, meaning very bright and expansive, so I have to try and recreate those same basslines in ACE or ZebraHZ as it is very obvious that the rest of the band feels overshadowed by the sound from Bazille. As a sidenote, I have become quite proficient in using the MidiMap from ACE as an Ar/Seq, modulated by the Ramp with the MidiMap in Quantisize mode.

Now, when in minimal tracks as you mention, with say just a bassline and a beat with some instances of Bazille, then yes, it shines and takes center stage. Those Pads in the Winners soundset are amazing and perfect for those situations.

I also thank you for your well written post, hard to come by posts like that in here
But then a strange fear gripped me
and I just couldn't ask....

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Well, Bazille is marketed more as a "digital" style synth... So ACE would probably fit the bill better. So would DIVA, at least for earlier Moroder stuff?
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