Hive 1 record it's Arp/Seq - Is it possible?

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KVRist
190 posts since 21 Feb, 2012

Post Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:24 pm

Greetings everyone,

I'm using Hive 1 & I want to record midi notes from it's ARP/Sequence to new channel.
Actually I tried to route the input of midi channel from Hive's device by receiving it's Arp/Seq
notes being played then record what's playing in it but nothing has been recorded,
only the notes of the piano roll. I'm using Bitwig Studio.

So maybe someone knows I Hope?

https://vimeo.com/514564115

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KVRist
129 posts since 14 Dec, 2013

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:25 am

Thats impossible. Hive's output is audio not midi.

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KVRAF
18486 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:28 pm

Hive doesn't output midi. The only way you could do it would be to use the Hive sequencer with a very simple unmodulated sound and then use some audio to midi software to convert the audio to midi.

The Bitwig arpeggiator does output midi so you could recreate the Hive preset sequence in the Bitwig arp. Depending on Hive settings it may or may not be able to make the exact same sequence.

KVRer
27 posts since 14 May, 2004 from ---

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:50 am

yes, its a shame that u-he plugins don't allow transfer the midi data into the sequencer. In my cases its a very important feature. Personally for me it would be sufficed if I could export a standart-midi file from the ARPs or internal Sequencers. So I can import it into the DAW.
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Urs
u-he
25476 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:00 am

We do work on these technologies a lot, but then abandon them if they cause more problems than they solve. For instance, VST2 is the only format that actually allows MIDI out. AU was supposed to get this, but its implementation is a mystery and never took off. VST3 has no built-in concept of MIDI, so there is no path out.

Some plug-ins create MIDI out points in the form of virtual MIDI devices. It's on our list of things to try out, but it seems like a stretch if people expect this to be tight.

Another idea we've followed is drag'n'drop of sequences as MIDI files (.mid). This works in many hosts, but then, last time we checked, some popular hosts don't support it. If we reckon that 50% of our users can't use a feature, it's not really a feature...

Which leaves us with the option to save sequences as a MIDI file. That requires us to have a platform file browser, which sounds like a trivial thing to do, but has proven to be a major development task to integrate into our framework in a universal manner (e.g. also to load wavetable files etc.).

So yeah, we're aware that exporting sequences is desirable, but so far there have been plenty of obstacles.

KVRer
27 posts since 11 Jul, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:15 am

Why not an independent U-he step sequencer/ Arp we could use with any synth ?

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Urs
u-he
25476 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:06 am

Clem4 wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:15 am
Why not an independent U-he step sequencer/ Arp we could use with any synth ?
Because we can't excel at everything.

The sequencers and arpeggiators we build into our synths are actually quite basic and textbook. It surprises me that people wish to use them out of the scope of our synths. People also have to bear in mind that we design them to interact with our synths, i.e. even if you could export a sequence from Hive etc., they wouldn't get the additional sequencing that's happening in the patch (Shape Sequencer, ModMapper, complex envelopes etc.)

KVRer
27 posts since 14 May, 2004 from ---

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:05 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:06 am

The sequencers and arpeggiators we build into our synths are actually quite basic and textbook. It surprises me that people wish to use them out of the scope of our synths. People also have to bear in mind that we design them to interact with our synths, i.e. even if you could export a sequence from Hive etc., they wouldn't get the additional sequencing that's happening in the patch (Shape Sequencer, ModMapper, complex envelopes etc.)
thanks for the explanation Urs. Think it this way, the ARPs and Sequences in the synths are often like creative songstarters. At some later point then, you will work on the notes in the arrangement of your track because you want to make changes over time. At this point now I have to set note by note by hand into my DAW Sequencer lane (piano roll). Thats annoying. A simple standard midifile export function would be the solution for me. Maybe you find a way to implement this in future. I would be excited about it, because I use it often.
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KVRist
377 posts since 20 Jun, 2005

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:52 am

I've had a few situations where I wanted to "midify" an arp from a synth.

Case in point AAS Ultra Analog's arpeggiator.

I couldn't replicate it's behavior in other arpeggiators, so I rendered to audio without fx and in a low tempo.

Ableton Live comes with audio to midi built-in, so job's done.

In the end, I think this is a job for a capable daw, not the plugin.

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KVRAF
18486 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:59 am

ThomasLehmann wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:50 am
yes, its a shame that u-he plugins don't allow transfer the midi data into the sequencer. In my cases its a very important feature. Personally for me it would be sufficed if I could export a standart-midi file from the ARPs or internal Sequencers. So I can import it into the DAW.
Why is it an important feature for you? It's not like the arp/sequencers in u-he synths have some unique capabilities. They are pretty straightforward. It is not like they are Elektron sequencers.

There are various VST arps/sequencers that are quite capable and can export (drag-n-drop) midi to the DAW.

KVRer
27 posts since 14 May, 2004 from ---

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:08 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:59 am
ThomasLehmann wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:50 am
yes, its a shame that u-he plugins don't allow transfer the midi data into the sequencer. In my cases its a very important feature. Personally for me it would be sufficed if I could export a standart-midi file from the ARPs or internal Sequencers. So I can import it into the DAW.
Why is it an important feature for you? It's not like the arp/sequencers in u-he synths have some unique capabilities. They are pretty straightforward. It is not like they are Elektron sequencers.

There are various VST arps/sequencers that are quite capable and can export (drag-n-drop) midi to the DAW.
because I have a lot of good presets with integrated ARPs/sequences and they are a good starting point for me...first I play with the integrated sequences, but later, if I arrange my song I want to change some notes here and there.
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KVRAF
18486 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:42 am

ThomasLehmann wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:08 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:59 am
ThomasLehmann wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:50 am
yes, its a shame that u-he plugins don't allow transfer the midi data into the sequencer. In my cases its a very important feature. Personally for me it would be sufficed if I could export a standart-midi file from the ARPs or internal Sequencers. So I can import it into the DAW.
Why is it an important feature for you? It's not like the arp/sequencers in u-he synths have some unique capabilities. They are pretty straightforward. It is not like they are Elektron sequencers.

There are various VST arps/sequencers that are quite capable and can export (drag-n-drop) midi to the DAW.
because I have a lot of good presets with integrated ARPs/sequences and they are a good starting point for me...first I play with the integrated sequences, but later, if I arrange my song I want to change some notes here and there.
Yeah, that is why I stopped designing presets with included arps in the synths. I mostly use the Bitwig arp and few VST plugins where I can drag the midi to a track. The Bitwig arp is great for me cause it responds to MPE playing making the arp very expressive in realtime playing. Blue Arp is also worth having (and free).

KVRist

Topic Starter

190 posts since 21 Feb, 2012

Post Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:55 pm

Urs wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:06 am
Clem4 wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:15 am
Why not an independent U-he step sequencer/ Arp we could use with any synth ?
Because we can't excel at everything.

The sequencers and arpeggiators we build into our synths are actually quite basic and textbook. It surprises me that people wish to use them out of the scope of our synths. People also have to bear in mind that we design them to interact with our synths, i.e. even if you could export a sequence from Hive etc., they wouldn't get the additional sequencing that's happening in the patch (Shape Sequencer, ModMapper, complex envelopes etc.)
Thanks Urs U-he for your explanation & interest.
Actually Is there a drag n’ drop feature in Hive’s arpeggiator where I can drag the Arp states patches straight to the DAW’s piano roll?

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Urs
u-he
25476 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:07 pm

horizon7 wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:55 pm
Actually Is there a drag n’ drop feature in Hive’s arpeggiator where I can drag the Arp states patches straight to the DAW’s piano roll?
We have tried, but like I wrote before, it didn't work in many DAWs - and thus we dropped the idea. We will certainly try again, but I don't know when.

KVRer
27 posts since 14 May, 2004 from ---

Post Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:36 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:07 pm
horizon7 wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:55 pm
Actually Is there a drag n’ drop feature in Hive’s arpeggiator where I can drag the Arp states patches straight to the DAW’s piano roll?
We have tried, but like I wrote before, it didn't work in many DAWs - and thus we dropped the idea. We will certainly try again, but I don't know when.
maybe a simple export function for a standard midifile is the solution for now. Every DAW can import standard midifiles. That would help a lot and its a good compromise.
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