would it be possible to expose controls a & b as knobs?

Official support for: u-he.com
KVRist
47 posts since 7 Dec, 2020

Post Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:21 pm

I'd love to be able to access the controls via Ableton's plug-in "configure" option, and manipulate them with a mouse.

Configuration-wise, I can't think of a good way to get my Push controller outputting a CC value without using a Max device to grab the Push's output and translate it, which seems clumsy, and would interfere with simultaneously using the native configuration options (as in, I'd have to either have my Max for Live device as the active device, or the u-he plug-in, but I couldn't have both at once without further Max for Live shenanigans...).

Mouse-wise, this would also be useful when I'm e.g. going through The Bazille Cookbook without a controller that sends CC values handy. Howard keeps telling me to try Control A and B but I can't and it's humiliating. Urs, Howard is bullying me and you can save me.

(I realize mouse control would probably mean giving them prime real estate, which has its own concerns ... I'd be happy with just exposing them as options to Ableton's configuration hooks, if I was only getting one of these wishes. But if a little pseudo-knob could show up next to where their CC is set in the preference pane, that'd be incredible.)

edit: oh, maybe the control bar would have room for them? That'd be amazing.

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Urs
u-he
25635 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:47 am

Howard is genius, the people who prematurely abandoned MIDI when designing their controllers less so :clown:

Nothing to this day replaces the joy of using a decent musical controller for expressive soft synths. It doesn't need to be an MPE device, a KeyStep Pro (the one with 4 extra knobs) will do.

Push ultimately was designed to mirror Live's clip view and while they did a decent job in adding a "linnstrumental" keyboard, anything that descends from the Minimoog begs for knobs.

My best advice: Get those knobs.

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Urs
u-he
25635 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:51 am

(as we have integrated Mod/Pitch-wheels in synths with a keyboard control, there is a chance that we do this in Bazille as well, but it means adding a keyboard control and reworking the whole cable thing to be tab-enabled. You see, it's not just done by slapping some active element on the UI, if we do MIDI via mouse, it needs to be the full package)

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KVRAF
21538 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:29 am

Indeed, get some knobs. Korg nanoKontrol 2 for example or Behringer X-Touch Mini.

But, to be perfectly frank, Live has its macro system, to me it seems utterly dumb that you couldn't have a "blind" knob that doesn't link to the plugin via host automation, but just sends out MIDI CCs instead... This way you could still control the plugin via Push and also send a CC to it as well...

KVRist

Topic Starter

47 posts since 7 Dec, 2020

Post Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:48 am

Right - I'm aware that's an option. I was looking for a solution that wouldn't involve spending more money, acquiring another piece of plastic, having to plug another device in, dividing my attention between multiple devices, or altering my workflow. I appreciate that it's non-trivial and maybe doesn't have wide enough demand to be worth it regardless of its triviality, but it's not like buying something hadn't occurred to me.

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KVRAF
21538 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:51 am

Ha, I guess in that case M4L is your only way out it seems... but you'd still have to change focus from device to device...

KVRist

Topic Starter

47 posts since 7 Dec, 2020

Post Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:59 am

Yeah, exactly, it seems like more trouble than it's worth. Like, I've done all sorts of grabbing of controls with M4L and am fairly fluent in it, but if I have to give up focus on the plug-in, or hack some sort of split focus ... doesn't seem worth it.

I've been thinking about an Electra One, but yeah, I really like the idea of keeping my focus entirely on the Push (and the Push encoders and display are nice! buying another set of encoders and displays to get around one obstacle ... I don't know. Sigh).

KVRist

Topic Starter

47 posts since 7 Dec, 2020

Post Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:55 am

I suppose I could put everything in a rack, and if the focus is on the rack then I can have access to both m4l devices and u-he devices. Then I'm limited to the 16 rack macros, but maybe that's tolerable.

KVRAF
2765 posts since 3 Mar, 2006

Post Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:27 am

I agree that there should be knobs for those for a different reason - it would let me assign bitwig modulators to them.

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KVRAF
11366 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:38 am

MitchK1989 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:27 am
I agree that there should be knobs for those for a different reason - it would let me assign bitwig modulators to them.
In Bitwig, put a MIDI CC device before Bazille. One of the CC knobs is set to CC 2 by default, just set another one to CC 11. You can then modulate the controls on the MIDI CC device.

KVRAF
2765 posts since 3 Mar, 2006

Post Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:44 am

That's a good point, doesn't take too much more work than modulating them directly either.

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KVRAF
11366 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:49 am

While I agree that Bazille really benefits from using it with a MIDI controller (so many patches really come alive when you send more than just note on/off data) I could see having onscreen controls for PB, MW, Breath and EXP. I mean we see PB and MW controls on instruments all the time. Bu whether these controls should be exposed for automation... that seems like it could cause problems.

Why not just ask for assignable Macro controls? I mean that's what this really amounts to, right?
If a patch has a free Multiplexer, you could also feed the +5v output into one of the inputs, then move the cables which are currently connected to CTRL A or B, to the output of that multi. You can then control the parameters which were connected to CTRL A or B, with the gain control, for that Mulitplexer.

KVRian
1036 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:27 am

https://killihu.vstskins.com/midi-controls/

I use this in Live, it's simple, does the job and it's free. Just place before Hive (in an Instrument Rack), input the relevant CC numbers and assign the knobs to macros, easy. I also assign CC1 so I can do modwheel via a knob and PB via the strip on the Push.

Edit: for bonus points, save the rack as a preset, call it something like Hive Rack or Hive Default or whatever and then instantiate the preset instead of the VST/AU and you save a few mouseclicks setting up the routing everytime.
Always Read the Manual!

KVRian
1036 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:35 am

justin3am wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:38 am
MitchK1989 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:27 am
I agree that there should be knobs for those for a different reason - it would let me assign bitwig modulators to them.
In Bitwig, put a MIDI CC device before Bazille. One of the CC knobs is set to CC 2 by default, just set another one to CC 11. You can then modulate the controls on the MIDI CC device.
I'm still new to Bitwig, is there a way to load the MIDI CC into the VST wrapper, like you can with FX in the post area? I can use an Instrument Layer to the same affect, it's just a bit cleaner if I could save it with the default instance of the VST.
Always Read the Manual!

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KVRAF
11366 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:17 am

No, I think you only get Post FX chains with VST plug-ins. Only the instruments included with Bitwig appear to have Note FX chains built in.

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