Modeling an acoustic piano...

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
joshb
KVRist
85 posts since 13 Apr, 2016

Post Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:57 pm

Happy New Year everyone.

I thought I'd start the new year with an interesting experiment...modeling an acoustic piano. Can anyone point me towards a good starting point?

Karplus-Strong?

Any clues how Pianoteq does it?

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Music Engineer
KVRAF
3774 posts since 8 Mar, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Modeling an acoustic piano...

Post Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:04 pm

joshb wrote:Karplus-Strong?
yes - but you will at least need an additional allpass in the feedback loop of the delayline to get the inharmonicity of stiff strings:

http://www.dafx.ca/proceedings/papers/p_071.pdf

and you probably want to model sympathetic resonance, i.e. a mutual cross-excitation of all the individual strings. i guess that implies to actually run the delaylines for all strings at all times making it essentially a giant feedback delay network, but i'm really just guessing :o
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Ananke
KVRer
8 posts since 30 Sep, 2010

Re: Modeling an acoustic piano...

Post Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:16 am

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/Pi ... hesis.html

Could be an interesting project. Maybe stick it on github after :D

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17193 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Modeling an acoustic piano...

Post Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:34 am

Pianoteq uses much more than K-S... Lots of equation solving in realtime, possibly a crossbreed between waveguides and additive synthesis as well...

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syntonica
KVRist
443 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Re: Modeling an acoustic piano...

Post Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:33 pm

You've got a number of things to model: the strings, including the initial strike, sympathetic resonance and reverb, the damper, etc. Then, if you want, I suppose you could use samples for the sounds of the hammers, the pedals, etc. There's quite a bit going on under the hood. The latest Pianoteq seems to go overboard at this--I find it overly muddy and noisy. Sampled pianos seem to be more clear and open sounding, at this point, although limited in adjustability.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17193 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Modeling an acoustic piano...

Post Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:13 pm

Latest Pianoteq is absolutely not going overboard... you can reduce the noise volumes if you find it noisy (I don't).

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syntonica
KVRist
443 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Re: Modeling an acoustic piano...

Post Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:30 pm

I've just listened to the new demos, I haven't futzed with the new plugin yet, but I still didn't care that much for the previous version. Somewhere between Pianoteq and True Piano lies modeled piano Nirvana for me.

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