"Does C++ Have a Future?"

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
Miles1981
KVRian
1355 posts since 26 Apr, 2004 from UK

Post Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:03 am

stratum wrote:Of course I do not rebuild the open source libraries, but the part that we have written ourself takes about 9 minutes to rebuild (debug, on a core i7-4770)
You are lucky. In my case it takes an hour. With precompiled headers (and yes, it happens often that almost everything gets rebuilt due to... strange development practices.

stratum
KVRAF
1842 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:10 am

Miles1981 wrote:
stratum wrote:Of course I do not rebuild the open source libraries, but the part that we have written ourself takes about 9 minutes to rebuild (debug, on a core i7-4770)
You are lucky. In my case it takes an hour. With precompiled headers (and yes, it happens often that almost everything gets rebuilt due to... strange development practices.
And that's why I keep the kvr forum open while coding :D
(even if on the average it takes half a minute to build, it's pretty boring to watch)
~stratum~

Miles1981
KVRian
1355 posts since 26 Apr, 2004 from UK

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:05 am

stratum wrote:And that's why I keep the kvr forum open while coding :D
(even if on the average it takes half a minute to build, it's pretty boring to watch)
Yes, one of the reasons I also lurk on forums :p

camsr
KVRAF
6858 posts since 17 Feb, 2005

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:27 am

A programming language of the future, in my mind, would abstract the platform away from the language, and at the same time automatically solve optimizations in coding structure. Something that could eliminate the need to "code for code", writing code to discover or structure a program.

An example of a "code for code" problem could be a large dataset to reside with the program. Rather than having to profile the performance difference of accessing this dataset between a data section inside the executable and it being loaded from a file, the language would know how to optimize at compilation, and that particular dataset would be abstracted away from the source... it's location in system memory being handled automatically based on usage and system resources and other things. In comparison to C, there would not be static const types, or pointers to allocations, just data and access patterns that are determined by the compiler and system profiling.

I think data abstraction is one of the redeeming features of newer languages, particualily to coders who do not like to be slowed down by platform-specific obstacles. It's always important to verify the functionality of a program, to verify HOW it works and what it is capable of. Most of the problems in computing are hardly related to what the CPU does, the CPU is basically a calculator doing arithmetic and logical operations, so it makes sense that any language that can harness the CPU is "doing something right". More problems seem to originate from interacting the CPU with all the other stuff associated with a computer. That stuff can't be abstracted as easily, and it is there that attention to details of the platform is required.

At least C++ makes the problem more workable by building a scaffolding around ITSELF, so if something is not directly "abstractable" or is generically complex, it can be worked around with reasonable effort, as long as the platform is capable. There may never be a foolproof solution to any particular problem, so the language of the future would make discovering the ideal program structure more automated, with regard to WHAT the program is supposed to do, hopefully.
Image

User avatar
Max M.
KVRist
266 posts since 20 Apr, 2005 from Moscow, Russian Federation

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:21 am

camsr This makes sense in general, but in practice the approach you suggest as a solution will create a lot of another problems (well, actually we already know that from "higher-level" languages experience). Basically you'll just get trapped within abstractions invented by other people having another use-cases in mind. Since no abstraction(s) can possibly cover all possible use-cases (that's an utopia), a "code for code" thing is annoying but still better than "you can't do what you need simply because language designers just did not hardcoded this or that abstraction into the language".
But that's just a minor remark (nothing that I'd really argue when it comes to C++ specifically).

camsr
KVRAF
6858 posts since 17 Feb, 2005

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:28 pm

Getting trapped in abstractions is a definite reason to avoid some languages. That's why I think the language of the future will enable the coders to focus on using the data usefully, while the language and compiler and possibly something like a dynamic runtime engine can analyze the platform to facilitate optimal execution. And of course the differences here cannot be abstracted away to fulfill that goal, but the primary focus of such abstractions should be to use "code for code" as little as possible. If that means taking a resouce hit elsewhere, like in storage, it may be feasible given the progress of that computing aspect.
Image

quikquak
KVRist
390 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:24 am

Abstraction - Don't forget the fun of trying to debug unknown and even known code. *shudder*

umd
KVRian
1049 posts since 26 Feb, 2006 from Fartland

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:39 am

I'd rather use a programming language like C++ forever and focus in the idea than using a language that keeps "mutating" ( along with the terrible mess and pain that is to setup and keep up with everything ) and forces me to spend more time in everything else than the idea itself.

( I still remember the last time I updated XCode :cry: )
Free midi plugins and other stuff:
http://jstuff.wordpress.com/

User avatar
syntonica
KVRist
424 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:35 am

umd wrote: ( I still remember the last time I updated XCode :cry: )
I just went back to Xcode 6, where I originally started. Probably not the best move in regards to clang, but I'm getting awfully tired of Apple's B&D approach to programming.

Maybe it will let me update clang...

Chaotikmind
KVRist
65 posts since 26 Sep, 2005 from France

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:50 am

I have seen no one talking about Jai here, i know it's more game programming oriented, but it has some really cool features.
Go have a look on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9VCN6 ... KJXD3PkyxO

I especially love the Arbitrary compile-time code execution feature, which allow some really interesting things (there are demos of that in the playlist)

And don't stay on that first video, he was just thinking about it at that time,
lot's of thing changed in the language (and it should be released soon)

0degree
KVRist
107 posts since 29 Jan, 2017

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:56 am

Just quick question - why Rust is not really considered the possible next thing? It has nice C interoperability, compile time memory and thread safety checks and some modern language features. Is it because it’s not popular enough?

declassified
KVRian
1231 posts since 24 May, 2004 from Germany

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:30 am

0degree wrote:Is it because it’s not popular enough?
Yes, I think so.

quikquak
KVRist
390 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:36 pm

Has RUST it got to version 1 yet?

User avatar
syntonica
KVRist
424 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:57 pm

Rust uses a Let statement. Makes me feel like I'm back in 7th grade on the TRS-80. Level I.

User avatar
karrikuh
KVRist
292 posts since 6 Apr, 2008

Re: "Does C++ Have a Future?"

Post Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:18 pm

quikquak wrote:Has RUST it got to version 1 yet?
Yes, almost 3 years ago...
https://blog.rust-lang.org/2015/05/15/Rust-1.0.html

Return to “DSP and Plug-in Development”