Thinking of going 64 bit only...

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
mystran
KVRAF
4981 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:09 am

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:because technically it no hassle as you can build universal executables in a single run.
Until you have a dependency library that provides a "helpful" build process that hasn't ever heard about universal binaries and uses command-line defines (or something similar) to pick the architecture just to make sure you have to compile twice (eg. I have yet to figure out how to avoid doing this with Freetype).
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quikquak
KVRist
390 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:18 am

I presume you’ve told Freetype? They seem to like supporting different OSs.

mystran
KVRAF
4981 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:32 am

syntonica wrote:
mystran wrote: - int64_t is handy for some stuff
- large allocs and/or memory maps are hardly a problem on 64-bit,
I'm nowhere near doing anything of that scale yet. If I ever have to load in huge swaths of samples, then I can start worrying. However, I started programming with 4k of RAM, so minimizing the use of resources is extremely ingrained in my programming style. I laugh at myself when I throw more memory at a speed problem and I end up using only 64k more in the end. :lol: Old programming habits die hard as I drag myself out of the 70s and into the world of "limitless" resources.
With large allocs in particular, hitting the "maximum continuous block" limit is actually a lot easier than hitting the "maximum memory per process" limit. The reason is that while you might be able to get 3GB (or whatever) of memory into the process, the actual address space can get pretty fragmented especially after the process has been running for a while.

So you might end up in a situation where you have 1GB of free heap space, but malloc()/new might still fail for a continuous block of 200MB, which is only about 10 minutes of audio for 32-bit floats 44.1kHz stereo.
If you'd like Signaldust to return, please ask Katinka Tuisku to resign.

mystran
KVRAF
4981 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:50 am

quikquak wrote:I presume you’ve told Freetype? They seem to like supporting different OSs.
I haven't bothered really. It compiles just fine using the generic "unix" target, you'll just have to merge two builds for universal binaries manually. I have a few other issues with Freetype's design decisions anyway, so I'm not sure if I'm going to use it in the future.

As far as I'm concerned the auto-hinter is really the only advantage over something like stb_truetype and with high-DPI displays getting more common I'm not quite sure if I should even bother anymore.
If you'd like Signaldust to return, please ask Katinka Tuisku to resign.

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lorcan
KVRist
136 posts since 26 Sep, 2001 from Paris, France

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:33 am

mystran wrote: I haven't bothered really. It compiles just fine using the generic "unix" target, you'll just have to merge two builds for universal binaries manually.
I just put the all the .c files in a master .c 'unity build' file and include that in the XCode project.
Works fine to build a universal binary + no linking required.

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Timfonie
KVRian
1401 posts since 7 Jan, 2004

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:04 am

I didn't switch completely yet are doing it gradually.

In the past I used jBridge to run quite a few 32bit plugins in a 64bit environment (Windows 7 and Cubase).
My current setup, based on Cubase 9.5 also runs some 32bit plugins but only a handful of them. I still can't part with synths like SQ8L.

So there's no need to abandon any and every 32bit plugin. You can do it stepwise as long as your DAW runs @ 64bit.
The more I hang around at KVR the less music I make.

mystran
KVRAF
4981 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:22 am

lorcan wrote:
mystran wrote: I haven't bothered really. It compiles just fine using the generic "unix" target, you'll just have to merge two builds for universal binaries manually.
I just put the all the .c files in a master .c 'unity build' file and include that in the XCode project.
Works fine to build a universal binary + no linking required.
Oh I see, good to know... although I have no idea how to use Xcode and since I used Linux as my primary desktop for over 10 years (back before I started messing with audio code), I've pretty much internalised GNU make to the point where it's faster for me to put together a few Makefiles than to figure out how Apple would like me to do things

But yeah, I suppose I could just throw away Freetype's build system and replace it with a generic Makefile. I'll probably try that next time I need to compile a new version.
If you'd like Signaldust to return, please ask Katinka Tuisku to resign.

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syntonica
KVRist
424 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:31 am

mystran wrote:... although I have no idea how to use Xcode
Xcode is great if you are programming in their new baby, Swift, and formatting your code in their proscribed (demanded, even) style. Everything else these days is a second- (or third-) class citizen, including even Objective-C. When Apple cuts of support for something, even the good PDFs that describe in detail disappear from the web. That is the power of Apple.

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Aloysius
KVRAF
22077 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from a computer

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:46 am

Keep 32-bit alive on Windows.

Rob Papen is supporting the following with his new synth, so I will support him:

PC: 32 & 64 bits VST and AAX for Windows Vista / Windows 7/ Windows 8/ Windows 10
(Note: PC AAX for PT 12 or higher)
Mac: 32 & 64 bits AU, VST and AAX, for OSX 10.6 or higher.
I didn't get where I am today ...

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luzifer
KVRer
23 posts since 18 Apr, 2018 from Berlin

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Fri May 04, 2018 3:02 am

we still see a relatively high download rate for 32 bit binaries for windows. we develop and profile/optimize for 64 bit obviously and just do QA for windows 32. i don't have the impression that keeping the door open to both is a major obstacle during development. just packaging is a bit of a pain.

that said: what is your preferred way of releasing windows 64 installers? we currently package a 64 bit standalone and a 32 and 64 bit vst into the win 64 installer. which obviously also means that we have to distribute runtimes for both platforms.

quikquak
KVRist
390 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Thu May 10, 2018 8:30 am

Aloysius wrote:Keep 32-bit alive on Windows.

Rob Papen is supporting the following with his new synth, so I will support him:

PC: 32 & 64 bits VST and AAX for Windows Vista / Windows 7/ Windows 8/ Windows 10
(Note: PC AAX for PT 12 or higher)
Mac: 32 & 64 bits AU, VST and AAX, for OSX 10.6 or higher.
I thought AAX didn't work in Pro tools as 32 bit?

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Aloysius
KVRAF
22077 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from a computer

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Thu May 10, 2018 10:43 am

I don't use amateur tools (aka pro tools).
I didn't get where I am today ...

quikquak
KVRist
390 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Thu May 10, 2018 11:32 am

Aloysius wrote:I don't use amateur tools (aka pro tools).
Plenty of people do, but my question was, does anybody even run 32 bit AAX? I thought AAX was introduced when they phased 32 out? I’m probably wrong...

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lorcan
KVRist
136 posts since 26 Sep, 2001 from Paris, France

Re: Thinking of going 64 bit only...

Post Thu May 10, 2018 12:14 pm

quikquak wrote: Plenty of people do, but my question was, does anybody even run 32 bit AAX? I thought AAX was introduced when they phased 32 out? I’m probably wrong...
ProTools 10 supports 32bit only, 11+ 64bit.

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