There goes OpenGL for Mac.

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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fmr
KVRAF
7845 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:46 am

Guillaume Piolat wrote:I can see why Apple deprecates OpenGL...
Care to share why?

IMO it's just to (again) create another artificial incompatibility, to tie existing customers and developers more and more to their platform. It's the only way to allow them to charge premium prices for common products.

At the same time, they create another artificial obsolescence for their own older products.
Fernando (FMR)

stratum
KVRAF
1971 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:48 am

quikquak wrote:I don’t think it matters what make you card is. *sigh* time to buy a new iMac.
Sounds like sayings it's time to buy a new Jeep. No not at all, Suzuki, Hyundai and many others are fine.
~stratum~

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
2047 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:58 am

Maybe in the long term, they plan to open up the OS to non mac hardware and
make a play for the desktop market. From there, they could still sell their machines
based on hardware performance/quality. So, you could run OSX/IOS anywhere for a price,
and if you want the best performance for it, you would pony up for the latest
and greatest macbook pro sporting 128 arm based processors.

Something like that seems to me the only realistic avenue to a majority
market share, which has to be their goal for the far future. Domination...

This opposed to another possible route, that being better hardware for less.
A much more difficult proposition.

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
7845 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:03 am

pekbro wrote:Maybe in the long term, they plan to open up the OS to non mac hardware and
make a play for the desktop market. From there, they could still sell their machines
based on hardware performance/quality.
Except their machines, in terms of price vs performance/features/quality loose to basically ANY other vendor. :roll:

Therefore, that supposed plan is delusional.
Last edited by fmr on Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26231 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:03 am

pekbro wrote:Maybe in the long term, they plan to open up the OS to non mac hardware
No. They're locking down, not opening up.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

quikquak
KVRist
416 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:04 am

stratum wrote:
quikquak wrote:I don’t think it matters what make you card is. *sigh* time to buy a new iMac.
Sounds like sayings it's time to buy a new Jeep. No not at all, Suzuki, Hyundai and many others are fine.
Not when your family refuses to ride in one! (ie. customers)

User avatar
Guillaume Piolat
KVRist
180 posts since 21 Sep, 2015 from Grenoble

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:05 am

fmr wrote:
Guillaume Piolat wrote:I can see why Apple deprecates OpenGL...
Care to share why?

IMO it's just to (again) create another artificial incompatibility, to tie existing customers and developers more and more to their platform.
Yes you said it. The more particular and non-standard it is to develop for them, the more developers will make it Apple-only. And they sell hardware so churn is good for them.

- Apple was against MPEG-DASH because it didn't benefit them. That particular standard was made unbelievably ugly/two-headed just to have Apple "on board".
- They also killed Flash, presumably because it commoditized desktops to be Flash players. Who wants to sell VM players? Similarly with Java applets.
- There are only rumors they may disallow Cordova-based apps https://forum.ionicframework.com/t/all- ... oax/115757
- Java JVM lags behind Oracle's one on the Mac because they don't benefit.

That's also why we have "weaponized" languages like Swift. Chances are, it will never be portable, because it wouldn't benefit AAPL.
VST/AU/AAX: Couture | Panagement | Graillon

quikquak
KVRist
416 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:08 am

Eeek! - then of course there’s the rumour that they are planning to drop Intel, and start making their own Arm chips for desktop.

stratum
KVRAF
1971 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:11 am

Guillaume Piolat wrote:
fmr wrote:
Guillaume Piolat wrote:I can see why Apple deprecates OpenGL...
Care to share why?

IMO it's just to (again) create another artificial incompatibility, to tie existing customers and developers more and more to their platform.
Yes you said it. The more particular and non-standard it is to develop for them, the more developers will make it Apple-only. And they sell hardware so churn is good for them.

- Apple was against MPEG-DASH because it didn't benefit them. That particular standard was made unbelievably ugly/two-headed just to have Apple "on board".
- They also killed Flash, presumably because it commoditized desktops to be Flash players. Who wants to sell VM players? Similarly with Java applets.
- There are only rumors they may disallow Cordova-based apps https://forum.ionicframework.com/t/all- ... oax/115757
- Java JVM lags behind Oracle's one on the Mac because they don't benefit.

That's also why we have "weaponized" languages like Swift. Chances are, it will never be portable, because it wouldn't benefit AAPL.
Futile efforts unless Trump also adds customs tax on Chinese made PCs. :lol:
~stratum~

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
2047 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:12 am

fmr wrote:
pekbro wrote:Maybe in the long term, they plan to open up the OS to non mac hardware and
make a play for the desktop market. From there, they could still sell their machines
based on hardware performance/quality.
Except their machines, in terms of price vs performance/features/quality loose to basically ANY other vendor. :roll:

Therefore, that supposed plan is delusional.
Currently yes, but the arm thing could go along way for them in that area if done right.

sprnva
KVRian
1331 posts since 16 Jan, 2013

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:12 am

fmr wrote:My iMac has an Nvidia. I wonder if that will be supported ???
I think Metal support on Nvidia started with the 6xx series. So it depends on what model your iMac is.

The list of unsupported Macs goes up to the iMac12 so you'll need at least a Late 2012 iMac13.
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User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
7845 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:14 am

stratum wrote: Futile efforts unless Trump also adds customs tax on Chinese made PCs. :lol:
Are there Chinese made PCs already? :eek: :lol:
Fernando (FMR)

stratum
KVRAF
1971 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:16 am

fmr wrote:
stratum wrote: Futile efforts unless Trump also adds customs tax on Chinese made PCs. :lol:
Are there Chinese made PCs already? :eek: :lol:
In some sense, yes.
~stratum~

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
2047 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:20 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
pekbro wrote:Maybe in the long term, they plan to open up the OS to non mac hardware
No. They're locking down, not opening up.
Sure, but to what end? I assure you, a niche or minority market share is not where they want to be
indefinitely. Their actions now are not necessarily indicative of future intentions.

stratum
KVRAF
1971 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: There goes OpenGL for Mac.

Post Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:24 am

pekbro wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
pekbro wrote:Maybe in the long term, they plan to open up the OS to non mac hardware
No. They're locking down, not opening up.
Sure, but to what end? I assure you, a niche or minority market share is not where they want to be
indefinitely. Their actions now are not necessarily indicative of future intentions.
My guess is that when the self driving cars and other related AI products are ready the side shows will be closed.
~stratum~

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