OSX Catalina vs OpenGL vs ProTools 10

[MeldaProduction]

Interesting thread. Glad I am not a developer. You guys now making me want to get a MS Surface touchscreen. :-0

Hehe I now am not glad I am .
Get it, not necessary from MS, but touchscreens are awesome . The only problem is that you will then keep clicking on displays without it be confused why nothing is happening

[MeldaProduction]

I received a email from NI asking their users NOT to update to Catalina. Looks like it's headed to get some noise from audio devs

Just got the same thing from fxpansion, to wait until they're sure everything is compatible.

Yeah, pure unknown territory, thank you Apple... Even worse is tgat nobody knows what will happen in next update. Time to leave macos perhaps...

[telecode]

Interesting thread. Glad I am not a developer. You guys now making me want to get a MS Surface touchscreen. :-0

Hehe I now am not glad I am .
Get it, not necessary from MS, but touchscreens are awesome . The only problem is that you will then keep clicking on displays without it be confused why nothing is happening

seriously doubt it. i use two programs for 99% of my work -- putty and terminal.

[MeldaProduction]

Haha oldschool, nice!

[telecode]

Haha oldschool, nice!

you can do *everything* in vim. you just need to know to use it.

[MeldaProduction]

Haha oldschool, nice!

you can do *everything* in vim. you just need to know to use it.

Haha yeah every time git starts asking me for merging description and automatically switches to vim, I start googling how to exit that thing . It's for rocket scientists

[telecode]

Haha oldschool, nice!

you can do *everything* in vim. you just need to know to use it.

Haha yeah every time git starts asking me for merging description and automatically switches to vim, I start googling how to exit that thing . It's for rocket scientists

Apparently atom is where all the cool stuff is at

https://atom.io/

[mgw38]

Stay away from developers if you never want to hear someone vent about things you like. Speaking from experience :p

I do not mind developers venting. Not at all. I mind when they project their frustration onto me personally, especially when I am a customer. This is where a potentially valid level of frustration turns into unprofessional behavior.

[frizzbee]

Apple customer support is horrible. All they are about is getting money. I get it, we live in consumerism-driven capitalistic world, but still we have a choice. I for example have a high-end DELL notebook. It was cheaper than MBPro15 with the same configuration, plus it has a touchscreen (which Apple cannot give you, since you wouldn't buy ipads), much higher resolution, much bigger m.2 SSD, replacable etc. Then I sort of violated the headphone connector . I asked the support, 2 days later a guy came to my house, took him 15 minutes to replace it, no questions asked, no charge. After nearly 3 years from buying this laptop, it started restarting when closed after disconnecting power. I asked the support, they said it will probably be a mainboard, 2 days later the same guy came, in 30 minutes changed the mainboard and CPU, no charge. Can you honestly imagine anything like that with Apple?

of course not. Louis Rossmann and other YT channels have shown that Apple would rather fake some additional errors and sell you a new product instead of repairing anything. not mentioning that the price for a repair would be ridiculous high...

though our opinions often don't match i'm all on your side here. i saw this in comparison with my samsung smartphone and my girlfriends iPhone - only problems and since then never again.

[toonertik]

You are probably aware of this idiotic Apple's nonsense now, but what are we going to do? At some point people will start buying new machines with this crap preinstalled, so...

Not a big fan of developers who feel the need to insult their customer's purchase decisions. I am an Apple user and do not mind if a developer makes the decision to not support that platform. The market is saturated and there are alternatives for everything. But the constant bitching is annoying. Please make up your mind so that I know if it makes sense to purchase your products or not.

Interesting how we read things...
The dev is not an English speaking native...
I read it as Apple's idiotic nonesense .. not sure how you get idiots that use Apple from "idiotic Apple's nonsense"
So, in this first post I saw no reference to insulting customer purchase decisions...

From this post mgw, the thread deteriated.

I will keep shtum on my views on apple and it's recent behavior ..

Except to say, I saw an announcement recently about their dwindling iphone sale (was less that 50% of either profit or sales,, the first time less than 50% since 2012) and the introduction of a new streaming service cheaper than netflix...

Can we deduce this is where apple are centered and the pc/laptob business is just a pain for all....






I'll leave with this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

always makes me

[MeldaProduction]

Apple customer support is horrible. All they are about is getting money. I get it, we live in consumerism-driven capitalistic world, but still we have a choice. I for example have a high-end DELL notebook. It was cheaper than MBPro15 with the same configuration, plus it has a touchscreen (which Apple cannot give you, since you wouldn't buy ipads), much higher resolution, much bigger m.2 SSD, replacable etc. Then I sort of violated the headphone connector . I asked the support, 2 days later a guy came to my house, took him 15 minutes to replace it, no questions asked, no charge. After nearly 3 years from buying this laptop, it started restarting when closed after disconnecting power. I asked the support, they said it will probably be a mainboard, 2 days later the same guy came, in 30 minutes changed the mainboard and CPU, no charge. Can you honestly imagine anything like that with Apple?

of course not. Louis Rossmann and other YT channels have shown that Apple would rather fake some additional errors and sell you a new product instead of repairing anything. not mentioning that the price for a repair would be ridiculous high...

though our opinions often don't match i'm all on your side here. i saw this in comparison with my samsung smartphone and my girlfriends iPhone - only problems and since then never again.

Really? Hehe, it doesn't surprise me that much, but it's sad anyways... I suppose that's why they were so horrified when EU ordered them to provide fixes as every other HW developer in EU . And recently our prime minister here in Czech republic (who tunnels from EU, destroys the nature in czech by using forbidden pesticides, ... basically a mafioso, a total disgrace...) publicly stated they he will do as much as he can to make AppleStore fine here and I was like "what the hell is going on?"

[mgw38]

- I honestly hate Apple and their attitude towards developers.

Whenever there is a discussion about the merit of different operating systems, things have a tendency to get off into very weird directions. A simple mention of a preference can derail any discussion completely. This was not my intention.

My point was actually a very simple one. You asked what the best strategy would be given that Catalina seems to force you into forking the MacOS version of your product into a post- and a pre Catalina variant. That is a perfectly legitimate question that you decided to formulate by adding a number of completely unnecessary emotional attributes which admittedly annoyed me quite a bit.

Speaking as a customer and not as a developer it is important for me that I get the best support I can get for the products I buy. If you feel so strongly about the MacOS ecosystem as you indicate, I can no longer be sure that you are properly supporting your products on that system at all. Your products suddenly lost a lot of their original appeal for me. If you are a developer who hates the system you are developing for, the software you will produce will very likely not live up to its fullest potential.

So my answer to your question would be that it does not matter what you decide with Catalina as long as I can be sure that you stand behind that OS port of your product no matter what. Once again, strictly speaking as a customer and not a fellow developer.

Btw, for those of you who think that I am an Apple fan, I am actually not. I am an Apple user as well as a Windows and Linux user but I am not a fan of either of these operating systems. My music production system happens to be a MacBook Pro and I currently have no intention of changing that although I have written on a number of occasions here on KVR that the new Dell XPS systems look awfully nice and tempting.

But I am a very big fan of people who are able to properly communicate business relevant questions in a public environment without falling into the trap of creating echo chambers. And I absolutely hate that a growing number of developers have a tendency to completely melt down in the way they communicate through social media, including on boards such as KVR.

[Hanz Meyzer]

It's very important to always have the final word - Oh, now I have!

[masterhiggins]

Hehe that's the thing, OSX takes like 38% according to my stats, so it's not exactly possible to just ditch it. It would be possible to say "no catalina" though. But who knows, maybe it won't be that bad. But you know, the way Apple escalated recently it seems like they really don't care about music industry, they may not even know about that except for the guy who develops Logic . So if they trash OpenGL, then switch to RISC, and who knows what else they think about to earn more money, we may get into the point where it won't be feasible/possible to support them...We'll see, dark future with Apple

If you no longer support future Mac development (as eventually older OSes will no longer be supported by newer machines and machines break) does that mean Mac users can get free license transfers?

[MeldaProduction]

It's very important to always have the final word - Oh, now I have!

masterhiggins: That's too early to say. Nobody knows what the audio industry will do.

mgw38: The thing is, who else should tell you than a developer? Of course, I'm a bit emotionally honest yeah I know , but I'm not going to shut up, just because this is the almighty Apple . Btw. Apple is right now hated by pretty much every developer
Anyways to get you a more personal scenario, so that you can imagine the world with Apple : Imagine you are manufacturer of a driving wheel for cars, various cars, such driving wheels that people can buy them and attach them to their cars and your customers love them. They are attached with a classic set of screws (I have no idea how that works in reality ). Then a manufacturer of one brand, let's make it WV, since that one is also quite controversial these days , comes in and creates some new way to attach driving wheels (let's call XScrew ), then they market it like something that will change your life, bring some extra safety and speed to your car . Of course as a manufacturer you know that it's a nonsense, but you are ok with it assuming they will make a simple reduction from this XScrew to the normal connector, but instead they give you a big middle finger and basically tell you "you do it" and on top of that, they won't allow your driving wheels at all unless they personally check each one of them to ensure you are really supporting XScrew properly . So you need to change the whole manufacture, but that would make the wheels unusable for every other car. But you don't have a space to build both. And then you need to pointlessly transport each piece to VW and wait for them to check them out . So that's the current situation . That's why developers hate Apple