"Big sur" here we are again...

DSP, Plugin and Host development discussion.
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So, it doesn't seem to be released yet, though some customers were suicidal enough to actually install the beta in the hopes that they could make music :D . I'm not sure about the situation, but apparently our plugins are not working there, great :D . Any ideas what the hell are we going to fix for Apple this time? From looking at the OS changes, there doesn't seem to be anything interesting at all, definitely not worth the incompatibilities...

Meanwhile Apple doesn't procrastinate when it comes to the usual propaganda :D :

macOS Big Sur elevates the most advanced desktop operating system in the world to a new level of power and beauty. Experience Mac to the fullest with a refined new design. Enjoy the biggest Safari update ever. Discover new features for Maps and Messages. And get even more transparency around your privacy.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Well, there's plenty of resources for developers: https://developer.apple.com/

There's a new Xcode, new Universal Binaries that work on all hardware and Rosetta 2.

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Well, I checked there, but I didn't find a single thing that would say "you need to do this and this to support Big Sur".
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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In the keynote they mentioned recompiling as a universal binary in the latest Xcode. Are you in contact with Apple over this? Also, Urs from U-he gave some good remarks in the U-he forums on recompiling binaries for Big Sur.

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I'm not really in contact with them, I'm sure you agree that this should work without needing to ask for support. Where did you see the U-he's notes? I searched for Big sur here and found nothing too interesting.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Can't say much as we've deprecated support beginning with catalina. Anyways I wouldn't care if the OS is still in beta. Experience showed us fixing something in the beta makes us fixing it just again when being released :D
RugerioDelStereo wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:27 pm Also, Urs from U-he gave some good remarks in the U-he forums on recompiling binaries for Big Sur.
From what I read u-he plugins won't work properly on Big Sur either: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=550513.

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Ha! Bold step! Sadly I'm starting to feel that we are just enslaved by Apple forever :D... Anyways I agree, I'll wait, and at some point someone will hopefully come with some info :D .
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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VSTs work, AU still has issues for U-He. Urs also mentioned they got things running on Big Sur in a few days, but will delay rollout until ARM macs are for sale.

I think the whole process is a PITA for developers, I can understand indie/small-time outfits not jumping on this until demand for ARM-compatible plugins reaches a critical point :-)

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BlueprintInc wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:50 pmFrom what I read u-he plugins won't work properly on Big Sur either:
Nope, they don't - we still had those Component Manager resources from 2002 (which were deprecated, but we kept them for backward compatibility). The fix was to add new EntryPoints and move the description into the plist file.

Kind of a bummer since the Component Manager still worked in early betas of Big Sur.

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RugerioDelStereo wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:02 pmI think the whole process is a PITA for developers, I can understand indie/small-time outfits not jumping on this until demand for ARM-compatible plugins reaches a critical point :-)
That's very accurate. But that's classic Apple...
Anyways I wonder about the ARMs. I still cannot imagine they would be anywhere close to intel/amd stuff performance wise (and I mean real performance, not some hacked benchmarks made by Apple). Apple probably doesn't care, since most of their users just browse web, but for us it is quite relevant.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Urs wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:03 pm we still had those Component Manager resources from 2002 (which were deprecated, but we kept them for backward compatibility). The fix was to add new EntryPoints and move the description into the plist file.
That's probably going to bite quite a few developers in the backside since many use AU wrappers and still depend on compiled resources.
I started on Logic 5 with a PowerBook G4 550Mhz. I now have a MacBook Air M1 and it's ~165x faster! So, why is my music not proportionally better? :(

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syntonica wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:15 pm
Urs wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:03 pm we still had those Component Manager resources from 2002 (which were deprecated, but we kept them for backward compatibility). The fix was to add new EntryPoints and move the description into the plist file.
That's probably going to bite quite a few developers in the backside since many use AU wrappers and still depend on compiled resources.
And what's the "good" implementation then?
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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MeldaProduction wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:19 pm And what's the "good" implementation then?
Any vestiges of Carbon, CFM, compiled resources and other OS 9y things should have been removed by around 10.4, although they stuck around until 10.9 before Apple started dismantling/breaking/removing things.
I started on Logic 5 with a PowerBook G4 550Mhz. I now have a MacBook Air M1 and it's ~165x faster! So, why is my music not proportionally better? :(

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Yes, until recently we supported pre-10.9 installations. With the Catalina changes we dropped support for those, but we simply forgot to remove the dependency on the Component Manager. Bummer.

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Also note if you call any dialogs from the DAW process that's not allowed any longer either. Kontakt and Battery have problems with this now.

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