IncarnateX wrote: Hink wrote:
hi IncarnateX, not a lawyer, never studied law in my life and I'm not from Europe so I hope you dont mind me asking a question. Does the law in Europe require that IL honors the buyer future free upgrades or is it an "as is" sale in the eyes of the law?
I know you would not want to sell it to someone who would be stuck buying it from IL when the next upgrade comes out. I think Meffy is spot on checking with Ben as the marketplace is his store
so to speak, if he chooses to not allow IL to be sold out of respect for IL's policies there are many other ways of selling it.
I wish the best for you on this sale but I want to make sure someone doesn't get angry with you if they cannot upgrade for free
Thanks for the input Hink. I get your point and that is actually the reason that I have not put my IM account on sale yet, though others have and were locked. However, if I could sell my account as is, this would automatically include updates as these are provided automatically. It is not the product I would like to resell but the license to use it. I understand both Meffy and Ben but it is an important issue because there is really no middle road. Either the law support resales within EU and thus preventing people to resale is the same as violating their legal rights, in other words, KVR would be helping developers to break the law, OR the law don' t support resales within EU and thus keeping things at status quo is the right thing to do at KVR. To solve the issue we obviously need advice from lawyers.
But if Ben said no how would it be illegal? I agree that it might be best for a lawyer but on the other hand who is to tell Ben what he is to allow and not allow on his site? There really is a middle road, sell it elsewhere. IL does have a forum here for their pluggins, that forum will bring people to KvR and Ben makes income off of the advertising so having IL here is good for him.
When I worked in retail similar things would come up, many companies will not allow two stores close to each other to sell the same gear of theirs. For instance at Mars music we had two stores in Mass, one in Natick and one in Somerville (I worked in Natick Mass). We were not allowed to sell Mesa Boogies in our store though Mars was a mesa Boogie dealer, but Somerville could. We had a GC sort of across the street (you couldn't see it but it was very close), they sold Mesa Boogies and they were there first so Mesa Boogie said no. Mars had to honor that or they would lose Mesa Boogie entirely. (new amps only, used was a different story)
The store I worked at before that was a small store ironically in Somerville Mass too (I thought that Mars would be the end of the road for my job tbh), down the street in Cambridge was Daddy's Junky Music (the third store I worked for but once again a different location
). We had those Fender Squire packs in the window and while we actually had a good relationship with Daddy's salesmen they complained because they sold Fender. The Fender rep came in and told us we had to remove the packs from the store (but we sold them in our other three stores) or the store would lose Fender. (FWIW we kept them in the basement and still sold them)
So sometimes the companies and not the owner of a store calls the shots, Roland allowed us to sell the same thing as any store...they did not tell us we could not sell the same thing at Mars that they sold at GC...BUT...we could not sell any new piece of Roland gear below a certain price nor could GC or Roland would pull their gear out of that store. Mars use to send me over to GC to spy because I lived 30+ miles away and was better known in my area and not so much around there so I could go in unnoticed (in fact I once got GC to give me directions to Mars
) and people that once worked for GC that worked at mars noticed them doing the same thing.
So I think you have to live with Ben's decision and I'm not sure that a lawyer would change a thing (except cost money), if he decides to side with IL and not allow you to sell your license here I believe he has every right to do so...but then that's based on my experiences in the U.S. and not Europe. I also realize that this is a support site and not a store, we're talking something used and not new...but still, it's Ben's call IMO and I do not think he needs to explain his decision either TBH. He might just want to steer clear of any conflict of interest or issues. I really do not think it's really breaking the law either or helping anyone to break the law, it's his site, his ball and his rules
With that said maybe this thread will draw attention to your wish to sell FL and someone might just send you a quick PM.