How we feel about music and our own compositions

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
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highkoo wrote: I am consistently an asshole, fine. :shrug:
But, I am an asshole for calling you out?
Call me out as an asshole, fine. What you did was tell a story about my intentions.
highkoo wrote: Ffs jan, lets get real here; Your post summarized is "Your music is horrible and you have no skill. We all think so. And, youre probably autistic."
I am an asshole for noticing? :roll:
It's not a big deal. I have thought you were an asshole for years. Asshole is the most generous word I can come up with for it atm.

So if the feeling is mutual, no big, you know.

BUT you needed to tell a story about me as vicious. Do I have to sit for it? Have you met me?
This follows weeks of people telling Heroic Zelda Music Guy to "seek professional help". Tens of people have weighed in thusly. The autism thing, I'm not unique in that. My position is, this is something a person can't help. But do we just enable someone to keep posting this :nutter: stuff and no one can speak honestly about it? I'm not abashed in the least by your judgment. You're a pompous, posturing hypocrite, I don't respect this shit at all. It's just a feature of your assholism. Not in the good way. :D
What 'getting real'? You don't want to know where I'm coming from, you demonstrate that more than amply, you just want to bash me and this was your shot. FTR, I think anybody that doesn't find the same thing as me is weird. I think if anyone actually familiarized themselves with his "music" and did what you did is dishonest about the situation. I think to jump on me not knowing what we're even talking about is - let's lose assholism, assholism can be honest - dishonest in the extreme.
highkoo wrote: KvR is super angry lately.
Chomping at the bit for some conflict and righteous indignation.

For the record, I barely listened to any OP audio.
In my estimation, the things OP is really talking about go beyond a reference to any particular example.
Or at least, thats all I cared to talk about.
Why are you here?
To finally have a good poke at the "autistic" user who you have been assessing for weeks if not months...?

That is rhetorical. :phones:
Acting like this is rhetorical is just being exceedingly stupid. The word is obtuse, really. Again, you are stating what my intentions are. A gross distortion of what I said, in addition. Instead of being the least interested in it from me. In fact, I have spent more time in this thread answering you than I have with Heroic Zelda Music Guy. But do go on creating stories about it.
The thing that drove me to remark is that here is someone posting over and over that doesn't even try to do music really. My remarks are actually just spot-on. The things he is really talking about? Your estimation seems special and restricted. He has stated *more than once* that the people that focus on "playing instruments", even "learning instruments" and "music theory" - all of the things one does in order to develop chops - are deficient people compared to his grand ass with his surpassing understanding of emotion in music. It's past obtuse.

YOU took this opportunity to do what I think is the vicious thing you want me guilty of. Instead of really knowing all of this backstory (go check out the Heroic Zelda Music, you may then find the whole situation humorous, if you even have a sense of humor. I'm pretty sure you'll realize how accurate my remarks are, though.) you're just quick to judge. And a huge hypocrite. GFY, buddy.

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whyterabbyt wrote: Can anyone tell me how this actually differentiates itself from

"I found some random track, and played it backwards. I discovered hidden meanings in the reversed version that noone else seems to recognise. Ive concluded that if I do some 'music stuff' to the reversed version, other people will recognise the hidden meaning that Ive found. I dont understand music, or how to do music stuff, and all Im basically doing is plagiarising something completely, but Ive decided that I have untapped talent at music, so this idea must be good. please do the work for me."

(apart from being much shorter and not relying on nested layers of tautology)
So I'm not alone in noticing Matt has_stated he doesn't know 'how to do music stuff', yet he has a belief in his talent; which lies with his belief, top down, in himself as having a surpassing appreciation for the emotional side of music. While learning 'how to do' has caused everyone else to fail to recognize what he is 'conveying' if only to himself. Because knowing how obliterates understanding the emotions (this encompasses more than the one thread, NB).

Sorry 'highkoo', this is a forum and I felt free to notice what was done and sort it for myself. Like everybody in the Off-Topic 'I must have my pure pleasure back' threads, I notice de boy have a provlem and it's not anybody's job to provide that "professional help" through the interwebs. These are some bad ideas and I think saying so directly is as good as it gets.

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nasenmann wrote:
highkoo wrote: KvR is super angry lately.
Chomping at the bit for some conflict and righteous indignation.
is it? good i missed it

i've seen a calmer version of jan though...late sturm und drang! :wink:
"explore thy feelings, for behind your strain to be right all the time great pains lie hidden.
gettin too faux objectivist and rationalist round here.

autism ain't the only illness around..."

MMHHHMMM. My remarks in the first place are not sturm und drang or even really coming from anger. I do think they are not wrong. I think I have it exactly right. NO STRAIN. :idiot:
That was not a response to someone that has some point that I failed to take under consideration. It doesn't rise to even being an argument, it's a little 'slappy fight' between two people that don't enjoy each other's company on a big forum very much.

My 'need to be right'. Versus yours? To be right about me (again and again [PMs] telling me about me).
My feelings were aroused to have someone tell this poisonous story about my intentions and now this was your spot to pile on?
Yeah, that totally works doesn't it. Physician, heal thyself.

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jancivil wrote:You used this word 'convey' over and over. Your Zelda thing does not convey 'heroic'. It sounds like a small child with no real ear for music or the first clue about it was recorded. It's past silly.
People are embarrassed by it, and most of us would prefer not to remark on it out of sympathy. There is something normative that never happened with you.
Some will speculate 'autism' but I'm not qualified to comment.

So all of this talk, frankly is just someone flailing about with words and repeating the same couple of unexamined notions over and over, rephrasing it slightly.
You aren't conveying to anyone. You'll dismiss this as "scorn" but I don't really have that going on; just that someone, finally, after all of this needy posting, needs to be honest with you. Your notion of yourself as a composer is self-delusion. One has to develop chops and do all of these things you won't do. That you try to argue against learning instruments and theory in favor of some twaddle about 'emotions' was something I maybe shouldn't have even read but it does drive me to speak the truth about it here.
:lol: Jan is such a spitfire and I think it's awesome.

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jancivil wrote: So I'm not alone in noticing Matt has_stated he doesn't know 'how to do music stuff', yet he has a belief in his talent;
No, and as brought up in his previous trainwreck thread, googling his name brought him up in other forums where he posted nearly identical pieces to what he has posted here and stating, verbatim, he doesn't know anything about music production or theory.
jancivil wrote: ..Like everybody in the Off-Topic 'I must have my pure pleasure back' threads, I notice de boy have a provlem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE


EDIT
to help reassure you, here's a screen cap of one of his posts on another forum admitting to not knowing anything about music. Also, note the time stamp wasn't that long ago, so I doubt anything has changed since then.
Image

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nasenmann wrote:
jancivil wrote:
nasenmann wrote:your lust for arguing gets the better of ya.
And why are you arguing, to what point? This was helpful? Check yourself, I'm not moved to be something I'm not out of your disapproval at all.
becuz you're being a meanie. i don't like dat. see, i expressed myself.

stop sucking other people into arguments. it's somewhat annoying and you seem more intelligent.
You seemed more intelligent before this thread and all of this. You really just jumped in here, lying that you didn't have a problem with me which was later amply revealed.
My lust for argument, is something I'm aware of. But I didn't suck anybody into anything. 'highkoo' isolated my remarks, which I (and I know you can't stand this) stand behind 100%, and told stories about it. I had focused on the 'autistic' guy for weeks and took my shot at him, now. No. However it is true that, for instance Whyte, and Nolan and I did have the backstory you didn't, and don't need because of your zeal to have at somebody behind your issues.
I can never say 'that's projection' to you because now you say that's my projection. No, asshole, I know myself, I know exactly what I did here. Heroic Music Guy is not actually our peer here, he doesn't actually try to do what we do. Additionally 'how we feel about music and our own compositions' is a set up, he has no interest in anyone's, but justifying his "music". The whole OP of this thread is an explanation of points and an half-assed walking back of the points which do: "You people that don't appreciate the grandeur of Heroic Zelda Music*, with your learning music and instruments and theory, don't understand emotion in music at all because of that misguided focus." (* which you have to hear, you really do. It may make your day.)

If you were really honest and knew what you stepped into, you would TOTALLY UNDERSTAND the post. But no.
You sucked me into your problem. I do something your father did that you hate. Which is being a "complete f**king moron" 'on the intellectual battlefield' with some behaviors. For not being generous enough with dipshits? I have to fill in the blanks.
In a battlefield of ideas one would reasonably IME deem 'a debate', focusing on the person is a known fallacy. If someone says during a heated battle on that field :idiot:, that doesn't make the points go away. So I would say, out of my recent experience with you, that your assessment of an argument would seem to tend to be filled with fallacy.

So you and 'highkoo' are upset. With only me - out of all the context of Zelda Music Guy and his pure pleasure and his superior feels with music vs all the screwed-up people that learn about music so they miss all the feels - it's just the perfect shot to tell a story about me, which you amply reveal is a story about you first.
nasenmann wrote: i mean, you're free to ignore him.
But evidently you're not free to ignore me. You ignore the very context in which I remarked in order to have at me and judge how I am. Except that isn't how I am. It's your placement of shit in your life and I get to be a stand-in and if I fail to cheerfully take the abuse, I'm "losing it". Your problems shouldn't be any of my business.
This was all misplaced and a problem you do have with me. WHO KNEW? I used to think only good things about you. See if YOU can be more generous with your neighbor.
Last edited by jancivil on Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Someday the Big Giant Head of KVR will visit me in my dreams, and ask "If you could meet one KVR(ist, AF, ian), who would it be?", I don't hesitate: jancivil.

Don't know if I'd love you are hate you, just that it wouldn't be somewhere in between, you wouldn't care, and I wouldn't be bored.

(I'd come for the music too, which is pretty impressive).

On-T:
If you write 20 some-odd paragraphs on the features of Dave Smith's latest 80-voice poly-synth, or the future of jazz, or the latest ladder filter technology implemented with nanotubes, so be it.

The OP was, unfortunately, practically begging for psychotherapy.

Carry on, thread, carry, on...
Last edited by JoeCat on Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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How we feel about music and our own compositions
A juvenile silver fox

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On-topic. The topic as stated rather than per the OP which may look saner than it is to some of you. :)

I feel about my own compositions according to how well-executed the ideas are. Since 2006, more 2007 when I really got going creating via 'the DAW' and plugins, I learned some things.
I don't feature any actual track per se from 2006-7 (I have incorporated two things but not nakedly); my feeling on it is mixed. But as to production-values, I cringe. I should just delete the things.

I do not have any illusions about it. I'm always hearing possible improvements. There is a certain point, what's on my youtube channel is finished*, I can let it go.
* exception: I just changed the most recent thing which is not quite finished, and I will surely mix it some more. Not very worried. I feel really good about it. It took a lot of time to make this minute-and-a-half, it started slow with not really clear ideas and I got something to happen.

I'm a perfectionist. When I was a classical instrumentalist I was in a milieu where people got really close to perfection, and some of the time 100%. A really big name in the field give me an A, so I was really pushing myself, I did my best. I never felt all that confident and people gushing about it made me uncomfortable, including socially.
Ultimately that was totally a day late and a dollar short, the sneaking suspicion I always had was borne out. But I wanted to prove something to myself and my parents behind it. It's a hard, hard row to hoe and I didn't have what it takes.

I would never make a dichotomy between my mind or my emotion being what is primarily engaged by music. I saw some twat opine that Frank Zappa's music could never be truly great because of the lack of genuine emotion. I think the child was looking for something familiar rather than dealing straight.

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Sooo......wait, he's saying that by learning instrumentation and production that it somehow sullies the emotion of music? Do I understand this correctly?

If so, isn't that a bit of a contradiction? Doesn't he find Zelda music "heroic" and "grandeur"? He does realize that that music didn't just *poof* out of thin air, right? Seriously, Koji Kondo - composer of many of Nintendo's music - has been a long time composer and has a fairly extensive music background.

Like, even if you actively tried to write music without learning, I think eventually you would learn. Ergo, there is no emotion? I don't even understand the logic behind this.

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BACKSTORY to the OP of this thread:
"... you are blind to the greatness of this music, or that you are simply someone who is not emotionally in touch with music like me and are only focused on the physical non-emotional aspects of music such as playing instruments, studying music theory, writing down notes, etc which would also make you blind to portrayed emotions in music and would make you blind to the greatness of music in terms of its emotion."

blind to the greatness of this music:
https://soundcloud.com/mattmvs7/zeldachoir

Yeah buddy, that's not delusional or anything. My initial statement was 'we're being played'.

Oh, hey, highkoo:
MattMVS7 wrote:I have autism as well and can create great catchy portions of songs in my mind (I have actually made an entire song in my head). I wonder if this comes from my autism.
I wonder where this comes from:

As a group we understand it well and we understand that living solely for pleasure is not a good thing in itself.

Heroic Music Guy wrote in response:

"The reason why this belief is not practiced by many people is that many people are born and raised with morals (which would be viewpoints that are the opposite of mine). Even the most intelligent people were born and raised with such morals and never questioned them as being right or wrong and, to this very day, these morals have stuck into these people's minds to the point where nothing can convince them that they are wrong. It would be no different than trying to convince a religious person that his/her religion is wrong which, most of the time, does not work at all. As for me though, I have questioned these morals that were taught to me and have concluded that they are wrong. My personal experience of pleasure said to me that it was the only good and greatest thing in life. Therefore, I have thought about that experience and have concluded that I am, in fact, right. But other people are unable to see how they are wrong like I do and are unable to be convinced otherwise (though I am here at least trying to convince/debate with these people). Also, I do not care about the fact that if it were't for these morals, that I wouldn't be here. These morals are all still neutral and that still does not change the fact that pleasure is the only good and greatest thing in life."

edit: proper bbb quotes for statement of 'autism'
Last edited by jancivil on Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Emotions are fine - an understanding of the emotional effects of music don't hurt, and I like it when they're tweaked or kicked up by music. In fact pretty much all of the stuff I like does that by some measure.

But I don't think there are many (or any?) musicians/music-makers/sound-fiddlers out there that have made anything that does that for me without some knowledge or skill with the instruments they're using, whether that's computers, strings, drums, or a knackered old stylophone. Acquiring more skill or knowledge doesn't negate any emotional understanding, and to state that it does is incredibly ignorant in my view. Understanding music in an emotional sense is the easy part - making it requires some skill/knowledge. You might be able to throw something out there with samples quite quickly that hits some "feely" buttons but the more extensive your abilities at the "doing" part, the more options for those buttons are available to you, and you can create nuance and texture and subtlety that aren't readily accessible without those skills - thus you can make something greater that will make the basic version that is easier and simpler seem flat and spiritless in comparison.

Having more knowledge doesn't make emotional attachment or investment any less. Arguably, it just provides more avenues to be thusly affected. The only thing knowledge takes away is ignorance.

I didn't read the whole OP - it was so unbelievably convoluted and, as others have said, repetitive with such slightly different phrasing as to render it irritating in the extreme to read - even for me, and I know I can get into ridiculous circular postulation at times. I think I got the gist though.
Q. Why is a mouse when it spins?
A. The higher the fewer.

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jancivil wrote: Oh, hey, highkoo..
:clown:

Youre amazing!
ImageImageImageImage

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When I started to read this thread, I found some good, considerate comments from some people (haikoo, Xiangqi, Hink, and others), and I had hoped to make a comment or two myself about how I "feel about music and my own compositions".

But then the bodies started to pile up, and like others, it seemed it was more necessary to pull the survivors from the wreckage than to worry about the OP or whatever the topic was supposed to be. (And yes, I see where the OP basically has gone looking for some "validation" for his music on other forums. We're probably all guilty of that at one time or another--though, admittedly, we all may not have gone to such lengths.)

At any rate, I hope I someone doesn't try to pull me into this when I was simply hoping for a decent "civil" (no ironic pun intended) discussion on the original topic with fellow KVR'ers. I am interested in that topic, and once the blood has been hosed off the road and the next-of-kin notified, I hope we can get back to that.

Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.

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Well, the original topic is the guy half-assed walking back what I showed, which is "... you are blind to the greatness of this music, or that you are simply someone who is not emotionally in touch with music like me and are only focused on the physical non-emotional aspects of music such as playing instruments, studying music theory, writing down notes, etc which would also make you blind to portrayed emotions in music and would make you blind to the greatness of music in terms of its emotion."

Check out the soundcloud example, that _is_ the music that us mere mortals tied down to the physical such as actual the f**k involvement with music can't grok. Really, do it. I would be surprised if you came away with your same disposition to the OP afterwards.

It's understandable that you think this thread started off on the up and up. But who has actually read the whole OP?
I didn't take it in isolation nor did Nolan or Whyte, however. You will not see Matt engaged with anyone on the level, let alone show interest in anyone's music.

The question as stated was a ruse (How do YOU feel about music and your own compositions? You wanna redeem this thing? I think you stating your opinion of what you seem to not have really taken the time to apprehend is the opposite of that, it just feeds into the thing. So talk about the topic title as if on the level, why not?).
The whole exercise is a different approach [than the above verbatim statement] to the pre-empting of criticism about his music, which should be perceived as he perceives it. There is a psychological term for that that would definitely get him a monthly check from Social Security Disability just from the shrink writing it down. In order to keep him out of the workforce. Trust me. :)

Experience the true grandeur before it's lost forever: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5&t=424040

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