Insane value for money -software

[ATN69]

All subjective and all based on ones opinion, meaning there is no factual right or wrong to be found here.

[ghettosynth]

Perfect example. That's like saying that a wheelchair is insane value because it allows a paraplegic to get around.

Not unless a wheelchair usually contains a hundred other gadgets with different functions. We are talking about music software, and as tehlord pointed out, DAWs are very good value for money because they're essentially a collection of utilities which if purchased separately would cost a hell of a lot more than the price of the DAW itself.

You don't seem to understand the analogy. I don't think that anything from ImageLine qualifies as "insane value." In fact, I don't even think that their products even rise to the level of "good value." I think to be insane, you have to find some degree of universal agreement, e.g., Toneboosters. I think that you will get few people disagreeing that their products are great value. You can see the evidence of this in the other Tonebooster's thread.

You may like Fruity Loops, but a lot of people think of the software as weird, niche, and frankly, a bit juvenile. If you had to make an argument that "I" should buy it I think that you'd fail completely. OTOH, it is relatively easy to argue for ToneBoosters or Klanghelm. Identifying insane value isn't about what you like, it's about a level of value so high that virtually anyone with a need would want to buy the software.

In fact, there are some features in FL that I do like and I've thought several times about picking it up. However, the FL value proposition always stops me, the price is too high for what's being offered. I think that if you could buy the basic version of the software for about $20 that would get you in the neighborhood of insane value.

What do you mean by something other than "normal business" going on?

Exactly that. There is something in the business model that allows them to provide that great value. IIRC, it's been stated that the Tonebooster's dev is a well paid signal processing dev in another field and Tonebooster's is his hobby. With Cockos, Justin Frankel is independently wealthy and is not under the same pressures that other businesses would be. With Logic, Apple sells hardware, name other devs that give away major pieces of software, e.g., a spreadsheet and word processor, that rises to the level of quality of the Apple products.

[Vortifex]

..

[Michael L]

no factual right or wrong to be found here.

Now we're getting closer to "insane." Ghettosynth is defining value entirely rationally as cost-per-feature, a neoliberal calculus that does not qualify as insane. Insane value requires that you get something irrationally unpredictable, undefinable or quirky, an essentially priceless je ne sais quoi in the value equation.

[ghettosynth]

Man, I hate it when my subjective opinion is wrong

LOL! Ok, but, there is something to making this a bit more objective. I get that we each find value in things that is unique to our experience, but that's not what the thread is asking about. You really should look beyond your subjective opinion before you claim that something is "insane" value for a large portion of the population. That's EXACTLY how these threads could be more useful than a laundry list of favorites. If people actually put in the effort to justify their opinion in terms of the values of others, and not just themselves.

I think that Toneboosters Bundles are "insane value for the money", the products are of high quality with widespread consensus that they punch above their price class but the per plugin price is less than a cup of coffee. You see, this has nothing to do with what they do for me. I'm leveraging the opinion of the community at large and the fact of their low retail price to make my case that their bundles are "insane value for the money."

Consider trackers, of any sort. You aren't going to find widespread support they provide good value, even when free. They are a niche product that are generally viewed as outdated by the mainstream producer community. That doesn't mean that people who like to think that way don't find them useful, but, any claim to objectivity in terms of "value" is going to be difficult to make.

[ghettosynth]

no factual right or wrong to be found here.

Now we're getting closer to "insane." Ghettosynth is defining value entirely rationally as cost-per-feature, a neoliberal calculus that does not qualify as insane. Insane value requires that you get something irrationally unpredictable, undefinable or quirky, an essentially priceless je ne sais quoi in the value equation.

That's not exactly correct, but, if you're going to define value differently, then you should define it in some terms that others can appreciate. If you don't, then you're only defining it in terms of your own needs and you are not even pretending to be objective. In the 90s I thought that $2100 for a Nord Modular G1 was cheap at twice the price. There was nothing else like it and it became the staple of my live rig for a number of years. I could make the same statement that Vortifex made: "I think that the Nord G1 provided insane value because of what it allowed me to do." But that statement is largely nonsense for most people. To most people the only insane part of that deal was my reasoning in thinking that a two and a half octave synthesizer was worth $2100.

[Michael L]

That's not exactly correct, but, if you're going to define value differently, then you should define it in some terms that others can appreciate.

The first Google definition is "a state of mind which prevents normal perception." MuLab is insane value because of the hundreds of inventive modules that users created. Reaper is insane because it similarly ignited possibilities in its users. The Metasynth $99 sale was insane because it opened an inexpensive portal into another universe. Ditto SFX Machine for $5. If Zyklus Improvisor wasn't free but cost a dollar, it would be insane too because it enables live symphonic composition. For some people, ArcSyn or Nord G1 is insane value. But Logic is not-- even its name disqualifies it

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

Fathom at KVR marketplace
www.fathomsynth.com

[Vortifex]

..

[Zexila]

MuX by MuTools.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/mux-mo ... by-mutools

[wickfut]

so what started as a good thread to find some new good VSTs has now been derailed into some inane bullshit over what one person defines as good value.

well done

my vote goes for

Linnplug Spectal and CRX4, and sonic acadamy kick 2

cheers for the Toneboosters suggestion, never heard of those before. will be looking into them.

[ghettosynth]

That's not exactly correct, but, if you're going to define value differently, then you should define it in some terms that others can appreciate.

The first Google definition is "a state of mind which prevents normal perception."

But that's the wrong denotation because that isn't what people mean.

in·sane
inˈsān/Submit
adjective
1.
in a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill.
"certifying patients as clinically insane"
synonyms: mentally ill, mentally disordered, of unsound mind, certifiable; More
2.
USinformal
shocking; outrageous.
"they were making insane amounts of money"

Clearly, the second denotation is what is meant be the phrase "insane value." It's simply a slang superlative to mean much higher value than normal. So again, it comes down to defining what we mean by value.

MuLab is insane value because of the hundreds of inventive modules that users created.

I don't think that you'll find general agreement on that. Sure, there are lots of modules, I'm not so sure I agree with "inventive." Some are, many are junk as with every other library of user tools out there, e.g., Reaktor. Look, I own MuLab, I'm a paying customer, but I don't think that it's "insane value." It's a quirky tool that has some cool features for a niche set of users but it's behind the times in so many ways that it's hard for me to justify even "good value." I don't regret buying it but a few features might elevate it to good value. I doubt that you can convince most, or even many, people here that it's "great value" such that they will go out and buy it. For me that's a good metric. "Insane value" means that if I don't have it and I have some need then I'm going to go buy it because I've just learned how insane the value is.

Reaper is insane because it similarly ignited possibilities in its users.

LOL! What amateur marketing memo did you yank that nonsense from? That's an empty statement and in no way presents a basis for a value proposition. Again, I own Reaper, in fact I use it more than any other DAW, I use it every day. I think that it's "insane value" at the non-pro price of $60 and is hands down the best second DAW for almost everyone. It's routing capabilities, fast loading, built in bridge, amazing configurability, and other too numerous to list features make it one of the best environments for testing and other secondary activities. It's great for doing certain kinds of production, e.g., constructing work from samples because of the features that it's borrowed and adapted from Acid. It has built in network audio that, while not perfect, is very usable if you just need to route some higher latency streams from one machine to another. Nothing else out there for $60 has those features in a full capability DAW. Now, at the pro-price, I'm not so convinced that it's "insane" value. If you aren't already invested in Reaper and you're on a Mac, I would think that Logic provides far better value.

Ditto SFX Machine for $5.

SFX machine is a bunch of very old algorithms behind an outdated and abstruse interface from a company that was going out of business. I passed on it for $5. Had it been priced at $5 fifteen years ago then I would agree with you. As it is, it was a fire sale on an over the hill product.

If Zyklus Improvisor wasn't free but cost a dollar, it would be insane too because it enables live symphonic composition.

IT's free because it's U/I is a trainwreck.

For some people, ArcSyn or Nord G1 is insane value. But Logic is not-- even its name disqualifies it

Nobody uses the clinical definition of "insane" in this context. So this is just fallacious reasoning. No other DAW offers as much competent content and is as well regarded as Logic for the price. It's competition, e.g., Cubase and Live, are much more expensive for an approximate level of content.

T

[recursive one]

G-Sonique Ultrabass. Costs 30 EUR or something. Done one specific thing. Does it WELL.

[ghettosynth]

so what started as a good thread to find some new good VSTs has now been derailed into some inane bullshit over what one person defines as good value.

No, what started as a bullshit favorites list might evolve into a useful thread where people get useful information to make good decisions about plugins rather than wade through endless lists of poorly thought through reasoning.

Linnplug Spectal

The company has stopped development so you are buying something that will probably cease working in a few years. Even at that, it's not exactly at a "yard sale" price of $50. A lot of people like the plugin and if you need those features it might be a good choice. However, compared to others, e.g., ToneBoosters, I wouldn't think that qualifes as "insane" either.

and CRX4,

See above.

and sonic acadamy kick 2

This is a niche product that retails for...$65 for Kicks. For it to provide "insane value" you really need the features that it offers. If you want to tune your kicks, pro-tip, put a tuner on your track after your kick. Again, this seems like it's just a favorite and not really something that provides "insane value" to other people. Yes, I demoed the product and I've turned it down at every sale price point that it's been offered. I might pay about $15 for it, so a price of $5 or less would represent "insane value" for me.

cheers for the Toneboosters suggestion, never heard of those before. will be looking into them.

You see, I don't think that you'll find many who disagree with that as a recommendation.

[e@rs]

SynthMaster and SynthMaster One when they're on sale (and that's pretty often).