Why will software people not admit hardware sounds better?
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Okay. Think about this: Have you ever heard the sound of Elektron Analog 4 or just their FM engine Digitone? Well, you do not need to have preference for this sound to know that a softie coming anyway near them is a no-go. Ain’t gonna happen. Then take a Synth like Deepmind 6, when you turn off its effects and just put that DCO sound forward. Do any software come near it? Yes, imo, TAL does. But does it reach the final destination: No. It does not end there. Simple as that and all we have to do is to accept this as a fact and we can all be happy. Software is convenient (when you are lazy) and hardware just sounds better (when you want to be creative and make music).
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.
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- KVRAF
- 2256 posts since 29 May, 2012
FM is a known problematic case as far as I can see and the problem will not happen with a usual subtractive synth.IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:38 pm Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.
~stratum~
- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
is it not possible that we will soon have an entire generation of users that have never experienced a hardware synth, only know a software synth and will base their opinion on a different foundation?IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:34 pm Okay. Think about this: Have you ever heard the sound of Elektron Analog 4 or just their FM engine Digitone? Well, you do not need to have preference for this sound to know that a softie coming anyway near them is a no-go. Ain’t gonna happen. Then take a Synth like Deepmind 6, when you turn off its effects and just put that DCO sound forward. Do any software come near it? Yes, imo, TAL does. But does it reach the final destination: No. It does not end there. Simple as that and all we have to do is to accept this as a fact and we can all be happy. Software is convenient (when you are lazy) and hardware just sounds better (when you want to be creative and make music).
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
So now you are trying to get me off my quest by heart attack? Nice.
As if the nightmare of modern produzahs was not enough already. one day they will even forget a synthesizer once was something outside a computerscreen. God have merci on us all and the art of music in particular.
But your post has inspired me to write a long rant about just that. I will return later. Thanks.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
What I said was that a softie sounding anywhere near Digitone is a no-go. That the software implementation of FM is problematic supports that. But I think it holds for Analog 4 as well. You may get approximations with software but just that. It never gets there.stratum wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 pmFM is a known problematic case as far as I can see and the problem will not happen with a usual subtractive synth.IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:38 pm Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.
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- KVRAF
- 1525 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8
I'm somehow getting the feeling someone just recently gotten his hands on outboard gear first time and now going a little overboard with his/her feelings.
Both mentioned synths are great instruments of course, but not because of otherwise unobtainable sounds
Both mentioned synths are great instruments of course, but not because of otherwise unobtainable sounds
The GAS is always greener on the other side!
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Yes, got me there. Very recently since 1984. Feels like yesterday.
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- KVRAF
- 2256 posts since 29 May, 2012
Oddly isn't that digital(=software) also?IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:01 amWhat I said was that a softie sounding anywhere near Digitone is a no-go. That the software implementation of FM is problematic supports that. But I think it holds for Analog 4 as well. You may get approximations with software but just that. It never gets there.stratum wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 pmFM is a known problematic case as far as I can see and the problem will not happen with a usual subtractive synth.IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:38 pm Ask what? I am the one giving answers here. If the FM guys want to learn from it, they can come over here.
~stratum~
- KVRAF
- 5752 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui
Eventually tech like quantum computing, which is particularly suited to dealing with the problem of unpredictable systems, will become prevalent. This may go along way towards leveling the playing field. It will be some time before things become practical however.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Did you not read the man’s claim that FM is problematic to implement as dsp? This is not a semantic question about what to call “software”. Digitone is a whole, everything in its signal path and construction applies to its sound. Your comparison would not make sense under any circumstances. You cannot take Digitone’s sound out of it like a code and just implement it another piece of hardware e.g. a computer with soundcard.
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- KVRAF
- 2256 posts since 29 May, 2012
I had made that claim. It doesn't mean that there aren't people who know how to deal with it (within limits) and looks like Digitone is also just software in a box.IncarnateX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:20 amDid you not read the man’s claim that FM is provlematic to implement as dsp? This is not a semantic question about what to call “software”. Digitone is a whole, everything in its signal path and construction applies to its sound. Your comparison would not make sense under any circumstances. You cannot take Digitone’s sound out of it like a code and just implement it another piece of hardware e.g. a computer with soundcard.
~stratum~
- KVRAF
- 6095 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
A couple years ago I was at a Gearfest where Oberheim had a few two voices in a spot next to Pittsburgh modular. I was actually interested in both, but am more drawn to the sound of the two voice .. by a wide margin. Anyhow, I started just listening to people as they made comments to each other while passing through and demoing the systems. There were digital oscillators and a weird filter on the Pittsburgh setup. And it was playing what I can only term as sequenced industrial bleep bloop. You would be surprised how many people made comments about the two voice being "meh" and the Pittsburgh sounded awesome. It kind of shocked me .. cuz you know to me the two voice sounded like a million bucks and the Euro sounded like shit. And I mean total shit. Like SM57 at the bottom of a trash can shit. Just another point of info supporting that opinions on what sounds good are pretty useless as a frame of reference.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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generaldiomedes generaldiomedes https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396947
- KVRian
- 674 posts since 15 Apr, 2017 from Canada
I ran through some presets on a Sub 37 in a music store .. it sounded good but not good enough to justify the money, space and hassle.