MidiShaper 1.4 Out Now / Modulate your synths, effects and hardware

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRian

Topic Starter

1010 posts since 11 Aug, 2005 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:44 pm

paterpeter wrote:
Jakob / CableGuys wrote: Snap-to-grid: You can get close, as you have a grid in the background. I guess you want snap-to-grid, to place the point on exact musical value. But we believe that with music (if not doing old-school techno), it's better not to have snapping, and instead trust the ears. Most likely the exact musical value is not the one which suits best.
Please still think about adding (optional) snap-to-grid. It is a commonly used feature in the envelope/MSEG/LFO editors of many VSTs I use - probably all of them in fact. You speak about music - I'd rather make music than spend hours with aligning envelopes to a grid by hand :-) Many genres (besides old-school techno) make use of strict timings on specific grids. Nothing wrong or unmusical with that IMO.
Ah, cool you join the discussion again. Yes, the old-school-techno example was not that great.

There are situations where the exact value might be best, and others, where an almost-exact value is better (you might want to close a filter just before a note starts, remove the snare from your drumloop which starts 10 samples before the beat (or avoid a 1-sample-click even if it starts exactly on the beat), ..). I fear that if we offer the option of snapping to grid, it's just too easy to just always use that. I guess if we had snap to grid, it would be most useful to be just a bit ahead of the grid. But that might be confusing on the other hand.

Also, more options mean that more stuff is added to the user interface, which needs to be carefully considered.

Just my thoughts.. but I am not sure if my arguments outweigh yours. More opinions welcome!
paterpeter wrote:
Paining sines: You can get close, have a look at this image: ...
Again, while it can be achieved, it's unusual and unnecessarily laborious. No other MSEG/envelope editor I know of uses splines where the control points don't lie on the line.

Your tool has great potential, but please don't waste that by making the most common tasks difficult!

Regards,
Andre
We believe that our waveform drawing is more flexible. You can get much "softer" waveforms, as you are not forcing the waveform through control points, which could result in sharp waveforms. But if you want, you can still create sharp points. It might need a bit to get used to it, but from tests we have done with friends and hallway tests, they got used to it very fast.

KVRAF
1650 posts since 11 Jun, 2005 from Phoenix, Arizona

Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:49 pm

Jakob / CableGuys wrote:MidiShaper can be told to send MIDI CC as soon as you press a note...
Could it also be designed to send CC's without a note-press? Like, the sending of CC's when the play button is activated in the transport of the host?

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1010 posts since 11 Aug, 2005 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:12 pm

UncleAge wrote:
Jakob / CableGuys wrote:MidiShaper can be told to send MIDI CC as soon as you press a note...
Could it also be designed to send CC's without a note-press? Like, the sending of CC's when the play button is activated in the transport of the host?
Yes. You can set the LFOs to always running, or to be retriggered on note press.

KVRAF
1874 posts since 15 Oct, 2008 from Germany

Post Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:50 pm

Jakob / CableGuys wrote: Just my thoughts.. but I am not sure if my arguments outweigh yours. More opinions welcome!
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

Personally, I don't share your concerns about the snap feature. Simply not providing a feature that is obviously useful in many cases because of potential abuse is a strange solution IMO. It's like forbidding hammers because people may be tempted to drive in screws into walls with it.

Have a look at the spline editor that is used in most Image-Line VSTs, e.g. here: It features snapping, bipolar/unipolar modes, different line segment shapes (different single and double ("S") curves, hold, stairs, smooth stairs, rectangle, triangle) and it's still easy to use. It lacks a few details (like a modifiable LFO start phase) that I was hoping to see in MidiShaper.

The way your splines work is generally quite good - really flexible and intuitive, though as I said, I'd prefer the control points to stay on the line. Maybe you could add different segment types as well to allow the best tool for any situation.

I'd be interested in the opinion of others on these points, too. I guess I'll just have to wait and see where MidiShaper is going. I'm surely very interested in this project.

Regards,
Andre

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1010 posts since 11 Aug, 2005 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:58 am

paterpeter wrote:It lacks a few details (like a modifiable LFO start phase) that I was hoping to see in MidiShaper.
Right, MidiShaper does not have this, but there is a workaround: You can move the waveform (use the left-/right-buttons below the waveform).
paterpeter wrote:I'd be interested in the opinion of others on these points, too.
Me too!

KVRer
29 posts since 9 Jun, 2011 from Leicester

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:17 am

I have tried the plug in out in the way you describe in the Reaper video ( am using Reaper on a mac) and all seems to work well with Pitch modulation.

I am not the most experienced with Reaper so please bear with me.

1/ How do assign modulation from Midishaper to plug ins that do not have the option to specify Midi controller number. I did try the midi learn but Reaper would not see the Midi Output form Midishaper despite receiving the pitch modulation?

2/ Will I be able to use Midishaper to modulate other plugins parameters, in particular FX plug ins. This would would be great if so.

Hope you can help.

Many thanks

Best

S.

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1010 posts since 11 Aug, 2005 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:38 am

smuff wrote:I have tried the plug in out in the way you describe in the Reaper video ( am using Reaper on a mac) and all seems to work well with Pitch modulation.

I am not the most experienced with Reaper so please bear with me.

1/ How do assign modulation from Midishaper to plug ins that do not have the option to specify Midi controller number. I did try the midi learn but Reaper would not see the Midi Output form Midishaper despite receiving the pitch modulation?

2/ Will I be able to use Midishaper to modulate other plugins parameters, in particular FX plug ins. This would would be great if so.

Hope you can help.

Many thanks

Best

S.
Thanks for trying MidiShaper! I guess the plugin that you want to modulate needs to have either the option of specifying MIDI controller numbers, or have MIDI learn. It's safest to place MidiShaper just before the plugin you want to modulate.

KVRer
29 posts since 9 Jun, 2011 from Leicester

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:51 am

I did try Reapers MIDI Learn but is did not pick anything up from MIDI shaper? Is that expected or do I have a routing problem?

Also can the midi output be recorded?

Sorry for so many questions

Best

S

User avatar
KVRian

Topic Starter

1010 posts since 11 Aug, 2005 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:02 am

smuff wrote:I did try Reapers MIDI Learn but is did not pick anything up from MIDI shaper? Is that expected or do I have a routing problem?

Also can the midi output be recorded?

Sorry for so many questions

Best

S
I must admit I do not know.. I know you can record MidiShaper's output in Ableton Live, but I do not know well how automation works in Reaper -- I've only tried to directly automate plugins in Reaper, as I do in the video, which works perfectly (if the plugin supports MIDI assignment or MIDI learn). However I'll try recording MIDI/automation in Reaper as soon as I got a minute, probably tomorrow. (If someone knows, please chime in!)

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KVRAF
1784 posts since 1 Jun, 2003

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:52 pm

it would probably be a little esoteric to ask for 14-bit midi support on the outputs? it allows for ca. 14000 values as opposed to the 128 values of regular 7-bit midi CC.

just a thought. :)

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KVRAF
3085 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:40 pm

This looks interesting! Is there a way to set up a basic ADSR envelope? For example, Dimension LE doesn't have (of all things!) a ADSR envelope. At least not on the GUI. Could I put this in front, and use MIDI to give it ADSR envelope functionality? This is just one of the many things I can see using this for, and I'd be really interested in learning how I would do it.

Thanks!

--Sean

KVRist
124 posts since 1 Feb, 2007

Post Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:26 pm

I am still testing this module, on my wishlist: controlling Generate random waveform button by CC

KVRist
161 posts since 22 Apr, 2010 from Venice - Italy

Post Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:02 am

Sorry for these silly questions:
1)how to draw a sinus wave that touches the top and bottom lines (full range wave)?
2) what about a bi-polar (-1 to 1)/uni-polar (0 to 1) switch ?

Thanx

User avatar
KVRAF
1787 posts since 10 Mar, 2004

Post Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:41 am

smuff wrote:I did try Reapers MIDI Learn but is did not pick anything up from MIDI shaper? Is that expected or do I have a routing problem?

Also can the midi output be recorded?

Sorry for so many questions

Best

S
hi i think this is what you are looking for

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php? ... ontrolPath

i didnt try with midishaper
but its works with my homemade synthmaker controller plugin...
procedure is : put this to fx chain after the MidiShaper before the vst
i hope it helps

User avatar
KVRian

Topic Starter

1010 posts since 11 Aug, 2005 from Hamburg, Germany

Post Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:27 am

fabi wrote:it would probably be a little esoteric to ask for 14-bit midi support on the outputs? it allows for ca. 14000 values as opposed to the 128 values of regular 7-bit midi CC.

just a thought. :)
Pitch is indeed outputted with 14bit, complying to the MIDI standard.

For other MIDI controls, the plugin which receives the data needs to support 14bit MIDI (which in reality means to combine two 7-bit messages to one 14-bit), which I guess is very rare. Let us know if you know of any plugin, would be interested to know for later.

But MidiShaper can also be used to output MIDI to external synths, maybe more of them support 14bit?

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