2CAudio B2: Full Body. Maximum Attitude.

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
rj0
KVRist
429 posts since 18 Sep, 2010

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:44 pm

I'm getting the impression that B2 is, in some regards, Breeze+, covering essentially everything Breeze provided (including presets, although understood to be perhaps slightly different?), and more.

Thoughts?

KVRist
426 posts since 28 Aug, 2004 from Charlotte, NC USA

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:52 pm

http://soundcloud.com/cherry-hustler-cl ... quick-test

Hmm, yes, lots of options here. Quick two bar test with: Phoscyon, Drumazon, Synthmaster, and Rob Papen Blade. No Eq, only limiting.

I do like this...

KVRian
751 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from sweden

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:54 pm

Rj0, my impression...as far as the relation B2 has with Breeze is that B2 might contain the basic engine (2 of them, mind you) that Breeze utilise but a careful eye/ear will notice a much different "geometry" density modulation module and different behaviour of the EQ and Damping IMO. plus more control (and chaos) over delay dispersion over time. Breeze couldn't even hope for half of that AND maintain its Eco-nature. And then we can make mention of the Dynamics, Attitude modes (for each engine) and interesting addition of a configurable limiter and 4x oversampling available for offline and per-preset (instance) config of oversampling

KVRian
751 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from sweden

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:03 pm

elipsis1 wrote:http://soundcloud.com/cherry-hustler-cl ... quick-test

Hmm, yes, lots of options here. Quick two bar test with: Phoscyon, Drumazon, Synthmaster, and Rob Papen Blade. No Eq, only limiting.

I do like this...
Hi elipsis, are those your tweakings in B2? It's something I have noticed too that this unit is a crazy spacial monster. You can put things exactly where you want them in M/S and/or LR channels. If you look under the engine presets at Templates, there are some nice practical utilities to get started creating the space needed for certain material. A very nice and appreciated addition in this thing :)

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2620 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:05 pm

RE is it Breeze 2.0, or why is it not Aether 2.0, etc...

A quick summary (more to follow later):

Aether: Dual Engine. Two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT engines. They may as well be two separate plug-ins in one: the ER engine and the LR engine. The ER engine is very complex and has >100 parameters behind the screens, and uses real room geometry to emulate real acoustic space characteristics.


Breeze: Single Engine. No separate ER engine. ERs are part of the single engine, and they are controllable only by Contour, and they do NOT attempt to match any kind of real room geometry. They are just set by sound good following various secret design principles... Differ4ent modulation from Aether, different method of tuning the design, different filtering methods, Density control, Lo mode, etc etc. Conversation of Energy Scheme. Different stereo processing. All of this stuff is not in Aether. Thus Breeze has a different sound character than Aether.


B2: Dual Engine. IDENTICAL ENGINES. Engine can be either full, or ERs only. ERs do NOT use the same engine as Aether using real room geometry etc. They follow our pure-math non-linear design that permeates B2. B2 is not intentionally designed to create a special Hall impulse response for example. But it is quite capable of creating incredible reverbs. B2 workflow is MODULAR. It is like a modular synth. It is even more geeky as compared to Aether. It is for people who like to experiment. (or just use the library of >1000 presets items). It offers a ton of things that Aether does NOT have.

The B2 interface is intentionally designed to be similar to Breeze (against the guidance of our design consultant BTW), using the same style, b/c we want it to feel familiar. We want you to feel at home using it. A B2 preset has 91 (NINETY ONE!) parameters... That is quite complex. And yet is does not feel that way. For the next few days there is still no manual, and yet many people are already using the demo and full version and likely feel at home pretty quickly. If we made some new design this would likely not be true. In large part b/c the interface is partially familiar already. Furthermore Aether, Breeze, and B2 are part of the same family. They share the same DNA. We want them to feel unified and cohesive, and we want users to be confident to reach for any of them depending on the needs of their projects...

B2 is not simply two copies of Breeze glued together. If it was, we would likely call it Breeze 2.0, and make it a $99.95 upgrade. Instead what you have is another new tool with a TON of new options that Aether/Breeze customers CAN elect to purchase for $149.95 within the next 30 days or so, or $199.95 thereafter... B2 version 1.0.0 is internal build 120! That is 120 steps past what we have already done in past projects and can draw from.

New customers can choose which is better for their workflow Aether or B2. They are quite different in that aspect.

B2 does NOT replace Aether. Aether can do a bunch of things that B2 can not, and vice versa. It is quite different even in the tuning of various aspects of the algorithms that are similar between them, but it is tricky to discus these very specific technical differences b/c it makes reverse engineering them easier for competitors... B2 has a bunch of stuff in it that we DON'T want in Aether. Aether is used daily by some of the biggest projects in our industry. We are not interested in replacing it, or changing it's sound drastically. IT is complete in what it does at the moment. Releasing B2 in no way undermines Aether. It remains great at what it does. There will eventually be an Aether 2.0, and it will be a paid update. That is likely a long time away though, and you can bet that our developments in that time will be worth the upgrade price we ask for it at that time. This will focus on things are are specif to Aether that we do not want in B2.

A simple example: Filter options:

Aether has 15 controls dedicated to filter stuff: 7 for Damping, 8 for EQing.
B2 has 2 per engine, plus a menu to give a large number of different options.

If we added Aether's filter options to B2, where do we put another 30 controls? Then we have a verb wit 120 parameters?? It's too complex. Similarly how would we add B2's modular filter options to either without breaking compatibility?

The more complexity the harder it is to manage. So we must find a balance. Choices are made. Flavors are developed. Product identities are fermented.

We happen to be very good at reverb. We have lots of ideas on the topic. Wouldn't you prefer we continue to innovate in this area at let someone else lead analog modeling or something else we are not an expert in? We think we can make raspberry sorbet that will be as equally loved as our dark chocolate mouse and vanilla bean gelato. Yes they are all frozen deserts, just as many NI products are all synths, and many Waves products are dynamics or EQ products, etc etc. Some people love them all and want them all. Other may prefer one or the other. Who are we to tell them they are right or wrong. We just make the best we can and are happy to have your support in whatever way you want to provide it.

As for existing customers, we always treat them with the greatest care. There are always cross-grades and upgrades available. We think $149.95 for existing customers is really exceptional for what B2 offers. Paths to update to Perfect Storm from a single product will be accommodated as well. So what is the remaining request?

Thanks for all of your great feedback as always. More demos and info to follow soon...

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2620 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:14 pm

snigelx wrote:Rj0, my impression...as far as the relation B2 has with Breeze is that B2 might contain the basic engine (2 of them, mind you) that Breeze utilise but a careful eye/ear will notice a much different "geometry" density modulation module and different behaviour of the EQ and Damping IMO. plus more control (and chaos) over delay dispersion over time. Breeze couldn't even hope for half of that AND maintain its Eco-nature. And then we can make mention of the Dynamics, Attitude modes (for each engine) and interesting addition of a configurable limiter and 4x oversampling available for offline and per-preset (instance) config of oversampling

This is a pretty good summary yes... But even the common aspects between Breeze and B2 are re-evaluated and in some cases redesigned completely...

In regards to an earlier post, this why it is true that, while you can load Breeze presets as "Engine Presets" in B2, they will not sound exactly the same as in Breeze. They are meant to be starting blocks to design new B2 presets...

Note also, it is very very hard to get bad sound-ing presets in Breeze. It is possible with B2 to some degree b/c we allow much more extreme ranges and do not limiit things that might be problematic in some contexts b/c they might be desirable in others... With great power, comes responsibility as they say... So use your ears. And use the delay tap display to help guide making your own presets. This is VERY helpful when trying to make two engines work together...

ok, resting now... really... I promise... no more computers...

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KVRAF
2083 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:22 pm

Galbanum wrote: ...
As for existing customers, we always treat them with the greatest care. There are always cross-grades and upgrades available. We think $149.95 for existing customers is really exceptional for what B2 offers. Paths to update to Perfect Storm from a single product will be accommodated as well. So what is the remaining request?
...
Since you asked ...

The remaining request is a deeper discount for people who own both Aether AND Breeze.

Thanks again! :)

KVRian
751 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from sweden

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:26 pm

I'll be perfectly honest with you. When I saw the announcement email I purchased it without demoing it. I went straight to the shop and took it. I trust in the quality of the product and its support this much and not only that but I recognised early on and support 2C's objective of exploring space (the final frontier) ;P and the passion for what you were doing. If one cannot tell that from just visiting the website then I think one is deficient in some way. But seriously, With every new offering there was something tucked under your sleeve(s) that made acquisition of them a no-brainer. ...And we won't even go into your fantastic Galbanum lines. You and your team are work-horses.

KVRian
751 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from sweden

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:34 pm

Galbanum wrote:. And use the delay tap display to help guide making your own presets. This is VERY helpful when trying to make two engines work together...
Yes, agreed.. another fantastic feature of the B2 unit.. I believe that graph display goes up to 30! sec long taps? Like you say it is helpful when adjusting Cascades between the two engines using that one. With reverb, it does help to see what is going on a bit so that you can get the end result faster. I also like the info of the other modules' graphs and transfer responses and the fact they can be overlaid to get them to jive. But what is the blank "Oversampling" field for in the main Gain adjustment tab? For that matter, what are the Username and User Info fields for on the back of the unit?

Cheers

KVRer
22 posts since 28 Jun, 2010

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:42 pm

billcarroll wrote:
Galbanum wrote: ...
As for existing customers, we always treat them with the greatest care. There are always cross-grades and upgrades available. We think $149.95 for existing customers is really exceptional for what B2 offers. Paths to update to Perfect Storm from a single product will be accommodated as well. So what is the remaining request?
...
Since you asked ...

The remaining request is a deeper discount for people who own both Aether AND Breeze.

Thanks again! :)
That is really my main issue with all this as well. Cause what will happen the next time, and after that? What differentiate a good company is the way they make their customers feel. That they feel promoted and get something for being loyal. And it seems like we definitely are a group that didn't get that feeling when the announcement went out. I think this could have been dealt with quite easy. I see many with me included hinting that $100 would be a straight to the shop with out questioning. Everyone just cheering in these threads. Which now have to stand aside for some mistrust. Think about if everyone just had been saluting Andrew and Dennis for another job well done. Certainly that would have been so much more of an enjoyment.

So yes my only request is to see a deeper discount for people whom own the Perfect Storm. Hence a good will of that will probably not go unnoticed further down the relationship.

As a side note. One should take into consideration that not all of us are making money out of our software. This dollars could be well spent on other things (just as a girlfriend or wife FFS). Please don't just assume that its pocket money that will pay for itself in no time. Most of us gets nothing in return besides some amusement for creating art.

KVRian
751 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from sweden

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:47 pm

Oh and a further discount for those of us who were early-adopters of both products and 'missed' the opportunity for the discount of the Perfect Storm by way of supporting from the get-go. Give me 50 buck more off. If I didn't already have the license I def would take B2 and run for 50USD, no problem. j/k ;)

KVRist
443 posts since 16 Aug, 2010

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:52 pm

I just wondering about picture on the http://2caudio.com that has text "coming soon"?

What the heck it could be? :shock:
It looks like Post Plasma generator with materializing crystals for giving high level psycho control over sound? :hihi:
OR what it could be :help:

Anyone with the idea?

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2620 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:54 pm

billcarroll wrote:
Galbanum wrote: ...
As for existing customers, we always treat them with the greatest care. There are always cross-grades and upgrades available. We think $149.95 for existing customers is really exceptional for what B2 offers. Paths to update to Perfect Storm from a single product will be accommodated as well. So what is the remaining request?
...
Since you asked ...

The remaining request is a deeper discount for people who own both Aether AND Breeze.

Thanks again! :)


Sounds reasonable potentially. Let us think about implementation. It gets tricky to handle all the possible combinations and permutations... But maybe we can figure something out... It won't be a huge difference if we figure out how to do it, but maybe we can do something...
Last edited by Andrew Souter on Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

2620 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:55 pm

xtrax wrote:I just wondering about picture on the http://2caudio.com that has text "coming soon"?

What the heck it could be? :shock:
It looks like Post Plasma generator with materializing crystals for giving high level psycho control over sound? :hihi:
OR what it could be :help:

Anyone with the idea?

I have an idea, but I am not telling... let's save that discussion for later...

KVRian
751 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from sweden

Post Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:56 pm

xtrax wrote:I just wondering about picture on the http://2caudio.com that has text "coming soon"?

What the heck it could be? :shock:
It looks like Post Plasma generator with materializing crystals for giving high level psycho control over sound? :hihi:
OR what it could be :help:

Anyone with the idea?
Must be blind. Where?

Edit NOW I caught it. Damn. And me thinking at first that was just a fancy border ;P
Last edited by snigelx on Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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