ToneBoosters: New License Transfer Policy

[Limeflavour]

I don't really see why the price of the transfer should be related to the price of the plugin.
To make the license transfer Jeroen has to take time from something that probably is alot more important.
So for him to stop working on whatever he's doing and take the time to make the transfer and charge 10€ for it is still pretty fair in my book.

Just because the plugin is only worth 20€ doesn't mean that Jeroen's time is worth 0€.

[chk071]

I would have preferred to put this thread into the Market Place, but I already have a current sales ad there, so...

After I had sold a TB plug-in recently, Jeroen informed me that TB have introduced (or are about to do so) "a formal procedure for license transfers via our website".

http://www.toneboosters.com/license-transfer-policy

While quite a few small developers charge license transfer fees, the implications in the case of TB are rather severe: Asking for a transfer fee of 10 EUR when the plug-ins cost 20 EUR even goes beyond the transfer charges of FXpansion. This is as if, for example, Presonus would charge 200 $ for transferring Studio One V3.

To make this clear once again: In the future, TB will charge 50 % of the purchase price for a license transfer.

IMHO, the intention behind this step is pretty clear: Jeroen wants to discourage any TB plug-in owners from selling their TB products, or rather, wants to abolish any license transfers completely. In the past, software sellers would simply send their license files to the new user and, if at all, inform Jeroen about that. This must have happend a few times too many for Jeroen to introduce such a policy. Those "happy days" are over now...

Anyway, the question to me is whether such a policy should be supported. Once you have bought a TB plug-in for 20 EUR, you will either have to keep it for the rest of your life, even if you no longer need it, or give it away for next to nothing in case of a sale, knowing that you'll have to pay 10 EUR for the transfer.

I think in the future I'll rather buy more expensive software products where I know that - in a later sale - I will at least get back an acceptable percentage of the original purchase price.

What you forget with all this is that it means additional work for the company to transfer the license, and maybe give the same support multiple times. And really, bothering about 10 €? None of TB's plugins are even priced higher than 19.95 €, so why even bother to sell them? Yes, it basically makes them NFR, but wtf. It's 20 €. You can buy 3 packs of cigs for that...

[lnikj]

I don't really see why the price of the transfer should be related to the price of the plugin.
To make the license transfer Jeroen has to take time from something that probably is alot more important.
So for him to stop working on whatever he's doing and take the time to make the transfer and charge 10€ for it is still pretty fair in my book.

Just because the plugin is only worth 20€ doesn't mean that Jeroen's time is worth 0€.

+1 €10 is a fair enough labour charge for the transfer. You wouldn't complain if the price of the plugin was €200. The percentage of the full price is irrelevant.

[GaryG]

I remember Chris Randall partly justifying introducing Audio Damages $4 transfer fee due to the number of times he'd transferred one particular serial. If Toneboosters have anything like his business then it's a considerable chunk of their support time so a fee is justified imo. The fact they sell the stuff dirt cheap to begin with is kind of irrelevant.

[lnikj]

I remember Chris Randall partly justifying introducing Audio Damages $4 transfer fee due to the number of times he'd transferred one particular serial. If Toneboosters have anything like his business then it's a considerable chunk of their support time so a fee is justified imo. The fact they sell the stuff dirt cheap to begin with is kind of irrelevant.

Perhaps that says something about the plugin

[UncleAge]

I don't really see why the price of the transfer should be related to the price of the plugin.
To make the license transfer Jeroen has to take time from something that probably is alot more important.
So for him to stop working on whatever he's doing and take the time to make the transfer and charge 10€ for it is still pretty fair in my book.

Just because the plugin is only worth 20€ doesn't mean that Jeroen's time is worth 0€.

I strongly agree with this post.

[JJ_Jettflow]

So he spends a year or two developing a plugin and sells it for 20e but then charges 10e for an hour's time (if that) to do a license transfer?

[Limeflavour]

A plugin is coded once (not counting updates) and sold in multiple numbers, a license transfer is not. Simple as that.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

just because the plugin is only worth 20€ doesn't mean that Jeroen's time is worth 0€.

no one is saying he shouldn't charge a fee; it's perfectly reasonable to do so. however, at 50% of the plugin's worth it's not worth selling

it is irrelevant how much it costs in the first place, or how many cigarettes you could buy, as no one is disputing the great value of these plugs. what is being disputed is how in effect he is making these products nfr without, as someone has suggested, actually getting the flak for doing so

sean at valhalla charges the same amount, but he waives it for the first sale, and it also makes up a much more reasonable 20% of the original price.

i am sure it's frustrating to lose potential sales, but it is not so simple; oftentimes people get into a company via a second-hand bargain, then become loyal customers. loss-leaders work like this. i bought 'barricade' 2nd-hand, and would have definitely bought more from this developer. not now

[khanyz]

i am sure it's frustrating to lose potential sales, but it is not so simple; oftentimes people get into a company via a second-hand bargain, then become loyal customers. loss-leaders work like this. i bought 'barricade' 2nd-hand, and would have definitely bought more from this developer. not now

Loss leaders only work past a certain scale. So perhaps that's been OK up till now, but the scale of the 2nd hand market now exceeds the point of viability. Devs need to make money to continue, and the amount of the transfer admin cost has to be based upon time and overall sustainability.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

i am sure it's frustrating to lose potential sales, but it is not so simple; oftentimes people get into a company via a second-hand bargain, then become loyal customers. loss-leaders work like this. i bought 'barricade' 2nd-hand, and would have definitely bought more from this developer. not now

Loss leaders only work past a certain scale. So perhaps that's been OK up till now, but the scale of the 2nd hand market now exceeds the point of viability. Devs need to make money to continue, and the amount of the transfer admin cost has to be based upon time and overall sustainability.

of course !! i think it's pretty clear that i am not suggesting that developers swallow the cost. however, it really seems more about recouping lost sales than it is extra work. after all, once you swap out some registration details, and send some download links, future support should be no different whether old or new user

again, not begrudging some form of payment, but it leaves absolutely no margin for the seller and makes it seem like some kind of joke

by the way, pretty sure that klanghelm charges 5$ xfer fee on his 20$ plugs, which is very reasonable

[JJ_Jettflow]

i am sure it's frustrating to lose potential sales, but it is not so simple; oftentimes people get into a company via a second-hand bargain, then become loyal customers. loss-leaders work like this. i bought 'barricade' 2nd-hand, and would have definitely bought more from this developer. not now

Loss leaders only work past a certain scale. So perhaps that's been OK up till now, but the scale of the 2nd hand market now exceeds the point of viability. Devs need to make money to continue, and the amount of the transfer admin cost has to be based upon time and overall sustainability.

But if your LTs are exceeding your sales, then there's a bigger problem than will be solved by increasing service costs.

[khanyz]

by the way, pretty sure that klanghelm charges 5$ xfer fee on his 20$ plugs, which is very reasonable

Firstly, since I've worked for both ToneBoosters and Klanghelm (writing Manuals for version 1), I know that all involved are good people who just want to make good plugins. They try to do the best for there customers, but they need to make sure this is not abused. What a single customer may deem as a trivial activity, when multiplied for many customers, can become overwhelming and distracting from the main activity of developing and maintaining plugins. It may even require additional personnel.

Also, ToneBoosters is Jeroen Breebaart's second go at releasing commercial plugins so there might be a case of once bitten (or experience trying to prevent the same thing happening again). I'm sure that the amount charged is the minimum the economics allow.

[khanyz]

But if your LTs are exceeding your sales, then there's a bigger problem than will be solved by increasing service costs.

Who says LTs are at that point? They just need to be taking up a significant amount of time to warrant a fee. That is entirely separate from sales.

[Nielzie]

I don't really see why the price of the transfer should be related to the price of the plugin.
To make the license transfer Jeroen has to take time from something that probably is alot more important.
So for him to stop working on whatever he's doing and take the time to make the transfer and charge 10€ for it is still pretty fair in my book.

Just because the plugin is only worth 20€ doesn't mean that Jeroen's time is worth 0€.

I strongly agree with this post.

+1