Toneboosters Morphit - NEW headphones improvement, simulation and customization plugin

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRian
1273 posts since 15 Mar, 2007 from Yorkshire, England

Post Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:17 am

or use a music player that supports VSTs

Banned
12897 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Post Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:30 am

That's why I said a stand-alone version would be cool.
You can do what I described earlier, though. Since many sound cards come with driver software that includes an equalizer and effects, you can emulate the frequency response curve of your headphones on that equalizer and use it for sound other than ASIO as well.

KVRist
371 posts since 19 Sep, 2005

Post Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:23 pm

djeroen wrote:
alteregoxxx wrote: No hope to receive a clarification on that statement? :neutral:
Well I don't think many devs will explains all the dirty little secrets they use in their apps. Furthermore we've seen competing products using linear phase EQs, which I think is clearly the wrong thing to do.
Good. I respect your work as developer and you're right on the fact that you have all the rights of keeping secret your DSP "tricks".
Nevertheless, one have also to be honest in saying that if one can produce a filter starting from an impulse response captured trough one of the headphone presets of your Morphit and such a produced filter nulls against your Morphit preset than your plugin is no more than an LTI system, read a simple minimum phase equalizer, even if in a smart and simple to use form. Not a black magic plugin that "also correct the phase response of headphones".
Unless I'm missing something....?
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Banned
12897 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Post Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:06 am

Where did you get your frequency information from? I assume you did not have the chance to test and measure all those headphones yourself :)

Just wondering because I was just investigating my own headphones and found several frequency response curves, which don't really match. Just two examples:

http://www.rtings.com/headphones/review ... hd-280-pro

http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/ ... 80-pro.php

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KVRAF
4329 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Post Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:17 am

alteregoxxx wrote:
djeroen wrote:
alteregoxxx wrote: No hope to receive a clarification on that statement? :neutral:
Well I don't think many devs will explains all the dirty little secrets they use in their apps. Furthermore we've seen competing products using linear phase EQs, which I think is clearly the wrong thing to do.
Good. I respect your work as developer and you're right on the fact that you have all the rights of keeping secret your DSP "tricks".
Nevertheless, one have also to be honest in saying that if one can produce a filter starting from an impulse response captured trough one of the headphone presets of your Morphit and such a produced filter nulls against your Morphit preset than your plugin is no more than an LTI system, read a simple minimum phase equalizer, even if in a smart and simple to use form. Not a black magic plugin that "also correct the phase response of headphones".
Unless I'm missing something....?
something can be a "simple filter" yet still correct phase response of headphones. these are not mutually exclusive.
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KVRAF
9009 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:26 am

djeroen wrote:Furthermore we've seen competing products using linear phase EQs, which I think is clearly the wrong thing to do.
I bought Morphit a few weeks ago and demoed one such competing product at the same time. Morphit offered zero latency, which is necessary when software monitoring (example: I'm recording myself playing acoustic guitar and want to hear what the microphone is picking up in case I need to change my position or the microphone location), and just sounded less brittle overall. This was on not high end HD280's.

I'd echo the sentiment that a Morphit systemwide option would be nice, but I also recognize that may be a very different kind of development undertaking.

KVRist
371 posts since 19 Sep, 2005

Post Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:04 am

Burillo wrote:
alteregoxxx wrote:
djeroen wrote:
alteregoxxx wrote: No hope to receive a clarification on that statement? :neutral:
Well I don't think many devs will explains all the dirty little secrets they use in their apps. Furthermore we've seen competing products using linear phase EQs, which I think is clearly the wrong thing to do.
Good. I respect your work as developer and you're right on the fact that you have all the rights of keeping secret your DSP "tricks".
Nevertheless, one have also to be honest in saying that if one can produce a filter starting from an impulse response captured trough one of the headphone presets of your Morphit and such a produced filter nulls against your Morphit preset than your plugin is no more than an LTI system, read a simple minimum phase equalizer, even if in a smart and simple to use form. Not a black magic plugin that "also correct the phase response of headphones".
Unless I'm missing something....?
something can be a "simple filter" yet still correct phase response of headphones. these are not mutually exclusive.
Please, clarify further.
I've never said they are mutually exclusive; I've only said that in simple standard minimum phase filters (read classic standard equalizers) when you correct the amplitude of a frequency also the phase is forced to change accordingly. It's the standard behaviour of LTI systems: if you change the amplitude of a specific frequency component, also the phase relationship change at that specific frequency and around it, it's a free ticket, let's say, , no magic involved. :wink:

Headphones, ignoring marginal side effects due to the (small) THD that every headphone has, can be assumed LTI system, so a simple standard eq is all that is needed to correct them: it's not necessary (nor ethically correct, imho, for a scientist like DJeroen) to induce a customer in believing that a lot of snake oil is involved.


That's all I meant to say. I was only asking DJeroen if in my argument he saw any scientific flaw; I see no needs for an expert DSP scientist like him to keep itself on a defensive (and vague) position.
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Banned
12897 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Post Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:52 am

I have an idea for an additional mode.

Music is made for listening to it on loudspeakers. However, the same signal from the amp is used for both loudspeakers and headphones. But the result is very different as with headphones the right channel only goes in the right ear and the left channel only goes in the left ear, which is very unnatural. The important delayed arrival of the left signal at the right ear and vice versa is missing.

So, how about a additional mode where the plugin takes each channel and repeats it in a slightly delayed fashion on the opposing channel to emulate listening to loudspeakers.
Plus, the plugin might even have a few parameters (e.g. for 2.0 speaker distance from each other and speaker distance from listener) that will be used to calculate the result of the interaction of the left and right channels in front of the listener based on some algorithm.

KVRAF
4026 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder

Post Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:28 pm

Like Toneboosters 'Isone' or Waves Nx?

Banned
12897 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Post Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:33 pm

Oh, never tried Isone, didn't even remember I had it :hihi: But judging from the description it might do what I am after.

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KVRian
726 posts since 7 Dec, 2009 from GWB

Post Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:31 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Oh, never tried Isone, didn't even remember I had it :hihi: But judging from the description it might do what I am after.
Yes, it does crosstalk. Also the offerings from 112dB and Goodhertz.
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KVRAF
9179 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:45 am

Having tried all the cross-feed plugins and some hardware options, the Goodhertz CanOpener Studio plugin is by far the best one. Like a million times better than anything else out there in my opinion. It's the only one that doesn't colour the output weirdly and does exactly the minimum required to make mixing on headphones easier.

Morphit + Goodhertz CanOpener => I feel like I can almost.. almost ditch my entire studio and go completely independent and in the box with a laptop.
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Banned
12897 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Post Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:17 am

So, how do those plugins work? What's the logic?
First I put it on the master track and mix everything so that it sounds great on the headphones. Then I turn the plugin off and export to wav or whatever?

KVRAF
2118 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Berkeley, CA

Post Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:19 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:So, how do those plugins work? What's the logic?
First I put it on the master track and mix everything so that it sounds great on the headphones. Then I turn the plugin off and export to wav or whatever?
No, then you stick little mics in your ears to pick up the headphones, record that and export it to wav. Duh! :wink:

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KVRAF
1589 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit Sol III

Post Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:07 pm

Winstontaneous wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:So, how do those plugins work? What's the logic?
First I put it on the master track and mix everything so that it sounds great on the headphones. Then I turn the plugin off and export to wav or whatever?
No, then you stick little mics in your ears to pick up the headphones, record that and export it to wav. Duh! :wink:
Put three instances in a row and turn them all the way up. :o
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