Plugin Alliance - Black Box Analog Design HG-2

[bmanic]

In Reaper this is a lot easier to do though. You just insert two instances of HG-2. One that has i/o channel 1 selected and one that has i/o channel 2 selected. Then just insert 1 instance of MSED before these two, set it to "ENCODE" mode. Then insert another MSED instance after these two HG-2 instances and set it to "DECODE" mode. Done.

Damn that's cool. So you mean you have a stereo track and can tell every plugin on that track to only receive either the left or right channel (and for Reaper to simply pass-through the other channel unaffected)? Damn, that's a great solution which lets you keep it all on one track, and would make me use MSED even more. I really wish Logic had that feature (and a M/S encoder/decoder built-in to complete the feature).

Yes, that's exactly how it works.. for any number of "internal" channels. A single track can have up to 64 channels.

It's awesome.

[JohnnyA]

Yes, that's exactly how it works.. for any number of "internal" channels. A single track can have up to 64 channels.

It's awesome.

Oh my god. That would let me do all of my advanced M/S work with a single channel instead of a complex bus route. Wow. I've always known that Reaper has unique ideas. I can understand why some people have it as their preferred DAW. Now I'll be dreaming of that feature in Logic.

[Mercado_Negro]

In Reaper this is a lot easier to do though. You just insert two instances of HG-2. One that has i/o channel 1 selected and one that has i/o channel 2 selected. Then just insert 1 instance of MSED before these two, set it to "ENCODE" mode. Then insert another MSED instance after these two HG-2 instances and set it to "DECODE" mode. Done.

Damn that's cool. So you mean you have a stereo track and can tell every plugin on that track to only receive either the left or right channel (and for Reaper to simply pass-through the other channel unaffected)? Damn, that's a great solution which lets you keep it all on one track, and would make me use MSED even more. I really wish Logic had that feature (and a M/S encoder/decoder built-in to complete the feature).

Yes, that's one of the most useful things in REAPER. You can route things like there's no tomorrow. When a plug-in doesn't have a dual mono option I just use two instances and route one to Channel 1->Channel 1 and the other to Channel 2->Channel 2. I do that with the FG-Red's I use all the time in the master bus (also linking their parameters so the first instance controls the other. It can't get easier than that. I wish we could do the same with analog ).

[jens]

[ A single track can have up to 64 channels.

Which can be routed to any channel(s) of any track(s)

[Black Box Analog]

Hi guys,

One of the most difficult things about releasing a product like the HG-2 is that it doesn't fit neatly into a category and doesn't work like anything else out there. For that reason, people often make comparisons that aren't quite 1:1 and there can be a lot of misconceptions about it.

With that in mind, I wanted to address some. To be clear, my goal is NOT to convince anyone to buy the HG-2 but simply to clear up some misconceptions, correct some incorrect information and help everyone get the most out of demoing or using it, regardless of whether they end up loving it or not.

JohnnyA, I appreciate the time you've taken to write such detailed and thoughtful responses so I hope you don't mind me replying directly to your posts. We're not at all bothered if the HG-2 isn't the right tool for someone but we see these discussions as part of an ongoing attempt to help people understand what it is and what it can do.

Yes, this happens every time. The hardware emulations always do 1 piece of hardware really well, without any extra bells and whistles possible in plugin-land.

We agree! That is exactly why we started by modeling the hardware and then added a number of plugin only controls and features that make it far more flexible! The mix, density, input, air amount and calibration controls are all features that only exist on the plugin (although air and cal are internally adjustable on the hardware).

So yeah... HG-2 is great if you want a basic plugin that does one sound very well.

Actually, one of the defining characteristics of the HG-2 is it's ability to give you an incredibly wide range of results form gentle, harmonic enhancement that's transparent enough for mastering to full on distortion, searing highs, massive lows, tonal shaping, RMS increase and everything in between. It has controls that are not like anything else out there but once you get the hang of it, you can dial in the sweet spot for almost anything and it's flexibility is pretty amazing. The controls are intentionally simple but deceptively so. I personally don't like "tweaky" plugins so we worked extremely hard to achieve huge flexibility with intuitive and simple controls.

HG-2: Wooly sound. Great for a bass that sounds like it's playing through some silky wool. It has a very strange sound. Kind of like it's not distorting at all. Just gets fluffier and woolier. Like adding warm noise to the mix. It'd be really great for acoustic, "unplugged" music / acoustic "one voice and one guitar" singer-songerwriter music. As for controls, this plugin is basically a two-knob plugin: "More/less even order harmonics" and "more/less odd order harmonics".

From your description, I have a sneaking suspicion that you may have been hitting the unit extremely hard which left you with a very small window to adjust the results. The HG-2 can be anything but "wooly". It is fantastic for adding clarity, articulation, depth, punch and air to a track if you want. It can also add density to different parts of the mix and if you want it, can do "wooly". If you still have the demo, try rolling back on the "density" knob and I think you will be shocked

Since this plugin tends to have a deeper, darker sound, it also has a built-in EQ to "cheat" to add some brightness, called the Air knob, but it's not a tube exciter, it's just an EQ.

I wouldn't say the HG-2 is dark at all. In fact, because it adds so much in the way of harmonics, we have added a "dark" calibration setting so that you can go darker if you want. You can also go brighter. If you want "dark and warm" you can get it. If you want "bright" or "glossy" or even "brash" you can get that too.

You are correct that there is an "air" knob but it actually isn't an EQ and IS done with a feedback circuit at the tube that creates mostly harmonics above 10k. It is a very special circuit that is quite different than an EQ.

With HG-2 you'll add a "super transparent, warm fuzz" tool to your toolbox, which sounds kind of like mixing in warm noise into the mix, instead of mixing in distortion

That again sounds like you might have been hitting the HG2 extremely hard. Unless you want it to, the HG-2 doesn't add anything approaching "fuzzy" and with the correct gain staging has a huge range of tube "gloss" before you get to audible saturation. The other thing that I think people misunderstand is that most saturation tools add distortion or "fuzz" on TOP of the original signal. The HG-2 is very different.

With the HG-2, the entire signal runs through the high voltage tube stages in series. The volume pot of the Pentode and Triode comes before their tube stages which means that you can control how had you drive into each tube. But keep in mind that the entire signal passes through. You can think of it more like a traditional, multi stage guitar amp than a saturation plugin. So you aren't adding anything on "top" but leveraging the tonal characteristics, harmonics and saturation points of multiple tubes, in series. When you get your head around the thinking behind it, you can pretty effortlessly dial in a really wide range of results.

A note about the "density" control: The density knob increases or decreases the gain of both the Pentode and Triode tubes simultaneously while compensating at the output. As it turns those tubes up, it turns the output down by the same amount but since the tubes are designed to have a saturation curve, this is effectively setting the amount of headroom. Increase the density and you go into compression and saturation faster. Decrease the density and your dynamics begin to come back.

I hope this helps clear up some of the misconceptions about the HG-2 but I'll be happy to answer any questions that anyone has as well. JohnnyA, thanks for being a good sport and letting me reply to your posts to share some info.

[Black Box Analog]

I wish Plugin Alliance had just freaking put a "mid/side/both" mode selector in the HG-2 GUI. Developers need to stop cloning the hardware's limitations, dammit!

Well adding a switch to the interface is easy but the HG-2 has a single set of controls for both channels so you would need to literally duplicate every control. Essentially you would need a second instance of the plugin which you can do anyway.

Same with VSM-3's ability to solo just the distortion/saturation to listen to only the noise you're adding, to be able to shape that perfectly before mixing it into the sound. Why is that not in HG-2, a plugin released in the year 2017?

As I mentioned in my previous post, the HG-2 is not "Adding distortion" or "noise" on top so there is nothing to solo. It is running the audio signal through multiple tube stages and allowing you to control how hard you hit each stage.

And where is the ability to affect only a certain frequency range with the saturation?

That's exactly what the "Low, Flat and High" selector does.

And where's the automatic gain compensation to avoid "louder = better" when you raise the saturation?

The "density" knob does have automatic compensation. Also, one of the things that the HG-2 does better than anything I've found (for my taste) is to add density, control peaks and increase the RMS so if the goal IS to make something perceivably louder, it doesn't make sense to defeat that. In most cases, peak matching with and without is what will show you the results in the context of how it will actually be used.

There's a lot that's wrong with HG-2. They could have done much better. Oh well, at least the sound is great.

There is no tool that is right for everyone which is why there are so many tools. There are also a lot of amazing tools out there so it's a great time to be making music! That said, a lot of the things that you cited as being "wrong" with the HG-2 are simply due to misunderstanding how it functions and how to get the most out of it. That is by no means a dig at you and it's understandable because it really is a new approach but that's exactly why I try and take the time to chime in on these discussions.

Think of it this way... Although the HG-2 uses saturation as one of the tools to achieve the results it does, the HG-2 isn't a saturation unit in the traditional sense. It's an enhancement tool that gives you the ability to leverage all of the different characteristics found in tubes with transformers as well as the ability to shape tone and control dynamics.

[wald]

Now I'll be dreaming of that feature in Logic.

Logic does exactly that (with the latest update, you can chose between LR and MS).

[shroom81]

I don't know what you guys are on about Black Box HG-2 on the master is working pretty ffing sweet here

[greenfly]

VSM-3 is on sale right now as well, so wondered how those of you who have used it feel compared to Saturn and Decapitator for master bus clarity. I also use most of the time VCC and VTM, (also own MH Character, and Ozone for final) so I also don't want to overdo it. Thank you.

Roughly speaking, it can be said like this:

HG-2: Wooly sound. Great for a bass that sounds like it's playing through some silky wool. It has a very strange sound. Kind of like it's not distorting at all. Just gets fluffier and woolier. Like adding warm noise to the mix. It'd be really great for acoustic, "unplugged" music / acoustic "one voice and one guitar" singer-songerwriter music. As for controls, this plugin is basically a two-knob plugin: "More/less even order harmonics" and "more/less odd order harmonics". Since this plugin tends to have a deeper, darker sound, it also has a built-in EQ to "cheat" to add some brightness, called the Air knob, but it's not a tube exciter, it's just an EQ.

VSM-3: Clear sound. Great bite and character. It's incredible at warming up the bass; you can crank up the bass distortion and use the "shape" (filter) to take away all the highs to give yourself a thick sub-bass layer of growl underneath your real bass. And it's the best of the two when it comes to livening up the high end via actual tube saturation. With VSM-3 you can filter in exactly the frequency range you want to affect (like just the high end), set it to side-only (so you don't affect the mono part of the mix), and crank up some great sparkle which adds width and presence to the mix without sounding EQ'd, and then just play with the "shape" (lowcut filter on the distortion) to avoid any harshness at all, and lastly mix it in with the THD Mix (distortion amount mixer).

Saturn: I use it mostly as a mixing plugin, for radical toneshaping. It's the best of them all when it comes to that. The ability to have 6 bands with different algorithms per distortion band, and a 4-knob EQ per band, and powerful modulation, means that you can coax out any sound. But I don't use Saturn for the final "hi-fi master" polish. It's possible to do it, but I find that the hardware-modeled plugins are much better at that type of finalizing work.

Decapitator: It's very good, although it tends to distort harsher than VSM-3 and HG-2. But it's still a very good plugin. One of my favorite ways to add air to a track is to set Decapitator to mode N (Neve 1057), Drive 7, Tone at 100% bright, and Mix set to 50%. The idea is to crank the plugin so that it generates super high frequency fizz (the Neve algorithm is the fizziest of all the Decapitator algorithms), and to then mix it in gently (start at 50% and go higher if needed). This trick gives you a ridiculously beautiful, gently crackling distortion that sounds insanely gorgeous on almost any source and breathes fresh air and life into everything it touches. It sounds completely different from an EQ or a harmonic exciter, and it really opens up the sound in a natural way. Lower or raise drive to taste.

Anyway, I suggest that you download the free 14 day trial and listen to both VSM-3 and HG-2 on your own material, to feel how the knobs react and what results you get. My recommendation would be VSM-3 if you're after flexibility, clarity and great sound, or HG-2 if you're after unusual wooly/hairy warmth for acoustic music.

I bought VSM-3 twice, at $299 for UAD, and $299 for Native after I sold my UAD. It's that good. It's a no-brainer at the current $129 sale!

That being said, the one that's the most different from what you already own is HG-2. With HG-2 you'll add a "super transparent, warm fuzz" tool to your toolbox, which sounds kind of like mixing in warm noise into the mix, instead of mixing in distortion. With VSM-3 you'll instead get what's basically a higher-quality Decapitator, with very powerful mid-side mode and a great sound. That's why I say you should download the 14-day trials of VSM-3 and HG-2, to decide for yourself whether you want the fuzzy/noisy warmth HG-2 generates, or if you want the clarity that VSM-3 generates. The VSM-3 with its mid-side flexibility is my favorite tool for opening up a dull mix.

HI Johnny, I wasn't going to give the VSM-3 a look in with my free PA voucher as I think I'm pretty covered on the distortion front, particularly after buying all 3 transformers by KUSH recently which I must say distort really nice when pushed. For general saturation duties I normally go straight for the Decapitator and go through the different models for a nice saturated sound to a particular track.

After reading your review, I decided to give the VSM-3 a trial, given that I wasn't totally blown away by the HG-2. I'm a bit lost for words to be honest as the unit was really impressive and I can see this going straight into my mastering chain. To top it all off I paid around £29 for it, so very pleased with my purchase.

Thank you once again

[nordickvr]

...Now I'll be dreaming of that feature in Logic.

Since the introduction of "Dual Mono" option part of Logic X 10.3 last update,
you can do the same while using MSDE encode - decode capability.
edit : already answered while writing...

[Harry_HH]

After reading your review, I decided to give the VSM-3 a trial, given that I wasn't totally blown away by the HG-2. I'm a bit lost for words to be honest as the unit was really impressive and I can see this going straight into my mastering chain. To top it all off I paid around £29 for it, so very pleased with my purchase.

Thank you once again

Yeah, VSM-3 is the one I decided to grab a long time ago, when the price is convinient, and now it is. Just a matter of the decision if I should pick up the VSM-3/Alpha -bundle. Does anyone know if you can re-sell Pluginalliance bundles separately or just as a bundle?

[MogwaiBoy]

Yeah, VSM-3 is the one I decided to grab a long time ago, when the price is convinient, and now it is. Just a matter of the decision if I should pick up the VSM-3/Alpha -bundle. Does anyone know if you can re-sell Pluginalliance bundles separately or just as a bundle?

I just 'upgraded' from Alpha comp to the VSM-3/Alpha 'bundle'.

In my PA account on their website Alpha still appears as a singular, separate license - as does VSM-3. There is no mention of a bundle. So I strongly suspect (but can't confirm) that you would be able to sell them separately later on if you wanted. In that case, I don't think this is a bundle in the typical sense.

[Harry_HH]

Yeah, VSM-3 is the one I decided to grab a long time ago, when the price is convinient, and now it is. Just a matter of the decision if I should pick up the VSM-3/Alpha -bundle. Does anyone know if you can re-sell Pluginalliance bundles separately or just as a bundle?

I just 'upgraded' from Alpha comp to the VSM-3/Alpha 'bundle'.

In my PA account on their website Alpha still appears as a singular, separate license - as does VSM-3. There is no mention of a bundle. So I strongly suspect (but can't confirm) that you would be able to sell them separately later on if you wanted. In that case, I don't think this is a bundle in the typical sense.

OK, and the case may be a bit different because you already had the Alpha previously.
BTW, how much do you use the Alpha?

[shroom81]

I picked up Alpha already has Vsm-3, those 2 on the master buss is pretty close to heaven if you ask me.

Alpha can does some very transparent compression and level boosting, you can smash it too but imo like most mastering plugins it sounds best when used gently. Great sounding plugin as always from PA.

[malachy5]

I picked up Alpha already has Vsm-3, those 2 on the master buss is pretty close to heaven if you ask me.

Alpha can does some very transparent compression and level boosting, you can smash it too but imo like most mastering plugins it sounds best when used gently. Great sounding plugin as always from PA.

I have both, it is a very nice bundle but an odd pairing. One is Downton Abbey with effortless refinement and the other is Fury Road with beautiful mayhem. Of the two VSM is used by far the most here. It is truly excellent. Their VSC-2 compressor is also fantastic for heavy compression when you want a little colour. Also glue.

Interesting info on the HG2, I'm waiting for time to demo properly but it can certainly do a huge RMS lift without boosting peaks, I see it as something useful when you want (much) more than tape saturation. I always try to demo plugs with level match but in this case it doesn't really work as to me the purpose of the plug is to affect the perceived volume. Good to know that it is very sensitive to gain staging, similar to tape emulations. Makes sense for tubes!