Helix Native plugin

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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morelia
KVRAF
4344 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Post Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:24 pm

Reasons I will probably never demo this. 1/ Podfarm vst sucked, never worked for me, and would never load any of the addons I bought (all of them). Support was non existant at the time, not sure about now, so I never sorted that out. 2/ The (IMHO) over the top price.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17592 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:36 pm

Valimesh wrote:I've been playing around with the demo and I'm just very disappointed...I'm a pod farm user, have been for years...I use an amp on pod farm called the spinal puppet, TONS of gain. There is no such amp in helix native and no other amp even comes CLOSE to the amount of gain the spinal puppet has. Does anyone have any suggestions?
You can boost any amp to ridiculous levels by stacking distortion pedals before the amp, really...

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9369 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:44 pm

zvenx wrote:I was intrigued why it would cost $399 when my hardware Boss GT-100 didn't cost much more, and certainly my Boss GT-1 cost a lot less, as well as my S-Gear, TH3 etc...
So I downloaded and installed the demo.

After trying out Line6 gear for almost 16 years (from the pod which I didn't get in favour of the johnson j-station)... and owning a few (toneports, the power pack and a few others) which never ended up making it in tracks, I am now finally convinced that line6 sound aesthetics differ significantly from mine.
Odd considering how much the ADAT helped my career and how much I love the oberheim sound.

The $399 cost no longer concerns me...:-)

rsp
I'm with you. There has always been something about Line6 amp sims (the effects can be pretty good to great) that bug me, and the Helix is no different. S-Gear is great, and I like quite a bit of the Amplitube models as well. Ultimately, none of them really hit me like my Kemper. It was expensive, but I have to say that as soon as I bought it, I totally stopped thinking about guitar amplifiers and amp sims.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

SLiC
KVRAF
3228 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:44 am

For people who cant afford a Kemper there is always this! https://ampincloud.com/
i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, Syst1m, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, Heat, Digitone, MPC Live, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

Zydraka
KVRist
52 posts since 4 Aug, 2015 from U.S.

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:32 am

EvilDragon wrote:Guys, guys. Try loading some 3sigma or Rosen impulses into this mother, high gain amps absolutely scream with some of them!
This does indeed help some models sound better. The Engl Fireball sounds the best for high gain to my ears, but there's no helping that dual rectifier sim. It sounds like garbage no matter what you do with it. Seriously, free amp sims are miles ahead of that thing.

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zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:38 am

Another Kemper fan......I am afraid to test it :-)

rsp

zerocrossing wrote:
zvenx wrote:I was intrigued why it would cost $399 when my hardware Boss GT-100 didn't cost much more, and certainly my Boss GT-1 cost a lot less, as well as my S-Gear, TH3 etc...
So I downloaded and installed the demo.

After trying out Line6 gear for almost 16 years (from the pod which I didn't get in favour of the johnson j-station)... and owning a few (toneports, the power pack and a few others) which never ended up making it in tracks, I am now finally convinced that line6 sound aesthetics differ significantly from mine.
Odd considering how much the ADAT helped my career and how much I love the oberheim sound.

The $399 cost no longer concerns me...:-)

rsp
I'm with you. There has always been something about Line6 amp sims (the effects can be pretty good to great) that bug me, and the Helix is no different. S-Gear is great, and I like quite a bit of the Amplitube models as well. Ultimately, none of them really hit me like my Kemper. It was expensive, but I have to say that as soon as I bought it, I totally stopped thinking about guitar amplifiers and amp sims.
sound sculptist

Jim Roseberry
KVRist
458 posts since 9 May, 2005

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:26 am

Posted this on the Cakewalk forums.
Thought it would be applicable here.


It takes a while to get acclimated to using Helix.
The more time you spend with it, the more you can make the results "your sound".
For me, a huge part of getting sounds I like is making my own cab IRs.
Cabs that I like... mic'd the way I like.

Regarding the Native Plugin vs. the hardware:
Gain-staging and the front-end are imperative to getting a good sound.
I had to turn the input down about 4dB to get response similar to Helix hardware.
If you've ever listened to DI bass recorded with a cheap DI box... vs going DI thru a Neve channel... the difference is literally night vs. day (and the cost also reflects that )
Here's an example of Helix Native... playing a modded Marshall type sound.
http://www.studiocat.com/temp/Helix_Nat ... rshall.mp3

57/08 Bridge Humbucker > Neve Portico II > Fireface UFX.
Ignore the crap guitar playing - trying to give an idea of how the sound responds to picking, dynamics, and volume.
Cab IR is a Friedman 4x12 (v30 speaker mic'd with a Miktek CV4).

You can download the Marshall patch and Cab IR here:
http://www.studiocat.com/temp/JimsMarsh.zip
If the Cab is too bright for your taste, you can use a darker IR or the "high cut" in the IR block.
Note that I increased the Sag parameter in the Amp block to 9 (you can dial this back if desired).
There's an additional "tone shaping" IR included... which provides a slight boost in the mids (off by default).
The patch also has drive, phaser, and delay blocks.
The LA-2A type compressor is used before the Cab IR block... to simulate slight speaker compression.
Got the idea from when I had the Axe-FX II XL+.

Helix Native is sounding very similar to the hardware here...
IMO, The biggest part of getting your sound... is getting the Cab right (to your ears).
Get that to your liking... and the rest will fall into place.


Here's the same basic patch with a different Cab IR (Friedman 4x12 mic'd with Royer-121 and SM-57)... and the amp Sag parameter turned down a bit:
http://www.studiocat.com/temp/Helix_Nat ... 121_57.mp3
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

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zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:38 am

Jim Roseberry wrote:...............
Here's an example of Helix Native... playing a modded Marshall type sound.
http://www.studiocat.com/temp/Helix_Nat ... rshall.mp3

...........


Here's the same basic patch with a different Cab IR (Friedman 4x12 mic'd with Royer-121 and SM-57)... and the amp Sag parameter turned down a bit:
http://www.studiocat.com/temp/Helix_Nat ... 121_57.mp3
Yep. I just don't like the sound of Helix/Line 6..there is a higher frequency 'brittleness' in the sound that really 'grates at me'.
rsp
sound sculptist

Jim Roseberry
KVRist
458 posts since 9 May, 2005

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:15 am

A lot of that is down to the Cab.
If you listen to any great sounding tube-amp signal sans cab, it sounds harsh/nasty.

Here's the same modded Marshall sound with a darker MESA 4x12 cab:
http://www.studiocat.com/temp/Helix_Nat ... a_4x12.mp3

Listening in isolation, IMO a lot of folks forget that the coveted "Brown" sound had a fair bit of high-end (some might call "fizz").
Here's a mostly isolated recording of Unchained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfY0Hl35jFY
If you listen to the sound isolated (not in the context of a mix), I'm not sure anyone would call that a great tone/sound. :wink:
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

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zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:00 am

Jim Roseberry wrote:A lot of that is down to the Cab.
If you listen to any great sounding tube-amp signal sans cab, it sounds harsh/nasty.

................
Naw its a different thing I am referring to.
rsp
sound sculptist

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17592 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:24 am

No, it's not. :D

There's nothing grating in the sound that Jim posted. It's pretty much how Marshalls can be and definitely are. It's as brown as it gets and L6 nailed it. Methinks you're suffering from cognition bias when you read the words "Line6" and again bias from previous experiences. "They can never make it right for me." Yeah, right. :P I wonder if you'd pass a double blind test. :D

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zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:08 pm

EvilDragon wrote:No, it's not. :D

There's nothing grating in the sound that Jim posted. It's pretty much how Marshalls can be and definitely are. It's as brown as it gets and L6 nailed it. Methinks you're suffering from cognition bias when you read the words "Line6" and again bias from previous experiences. "They can never make it right for me." Yeah, right. :P I wonder if you'd pass a double blind test. :D
I have indeed played real amps etc.

but sure, test me in a real blind test. the real thing vs line 6. All I ask is you let some notes ring out and a few open 1-3rd string...its then the most that I hear the line6 sound.
If indeed I was that negative to line6, I wouldn't have even bothered downloading.
Cause there are some brands i dont even bother demoing from past experience.
Someone mentioned kemper above, I went to sweetwater and heard a non guitarist demo it.....even then the tone sounds great.
Why is it hard to understand/accept/believe the sound may do something for you but nothing for me?
I don't get it.
rsp
sound sculptist

incubus
Banned
5378 posts since 7 May, 2015

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:32 pm

These threads are always the same.

Anyways, if you dig it, that is cool. If you don't, that is cool too.

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Numanoid
KVRAF
25895 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:34 pm

incubus wrote:These threads are always the same.

Anyways, if you dig it, that is cool. If you don't, that is cool too.
Is that so :?

Interesting...

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zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: Helix Native plugin

Post Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:25 pm

incubus wrote:These threads are always the same.

Anyways, if you dig it, that is cool. If you don't, that is cool too.
Thats how I feel.
rsp
sound sculptist

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