Why is Slate Digital hated?

[JJ_Jettflow]

The thing that has peeved a lot of reasonable people, myself included, is the subscription scheme
where he wants to put everyone on a perpetual renter model regardless of what the need,
what the already have, and how the want to mix-and-much plugins across plugin manufacturers.
His arguments about the merits of the value proposition ranging from the skewed to the
nonsensical, imo.

No, Slate still offers, and from what he has stated on several occasions, will continue to offer plug-in purchases as well as subscriptions.... like Kush and others offer. It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

[ghettosynth]

The thing that has peeved a lot of reasonable people, myself included, is the subscription scheme
where he wants to put everyone on a perpetual renter model regardless of what the need,
what the already have, and how the want to mix-and-much plugins across plugin manufacturers.
His arguments about the merits of the value proposition ranging from the skewed to the
nonsensical, imo.

No, Slate still offers, and from what he has stated on several occasions, plug-in purchases as well as subscriptions.... like Kush and others offer. It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

He didn't say that they didn't, he said that Steven Slate "wants to put everyone on a perpetual rental model" which seems true enough from what I've seen and read.

[plexuss]

That said, there was a glimmer of hope recently... They sold their new VTC for $49 on black Friday this was billed, on their facebook page, as giving something back to the people who buy licenses.

'Some of our loyal customers who have purchased a lot of our software but are not everything bundle users have been sent a custom Black Friday deal that is not publicly available!'

Don't mind my cynicism, but I don't buy that this is "giving back" so much as it's another attempt to extract a bit more consumer surplus from the market. [snip...]

Yes that's what happened with me: I fell for VTC and bought it. They know that people like me/us are suckers for yet another take on the same thing. For me it's like a painter approaches paint, and some extra shades in the kit is fine. I tried the demos, they were different and interesting enough to justify the price. But eventually I'll be saturated with saturators. Already my plugin purchasing has slowed considerably because I have a lot of what is on the market. I can feel a big "yard" sale looming as I prioritize my kit.

I don't blame Steve Slate for that. Thanks for the new tools at a decent price. You are still a d*ck though.

[JJ_Jettflow]

The thing that has peeved a lot of reasonable people, myself included, is the subscription scheme
where he wants to put everyone on a perpetual renter model regardless of what the need,
what the already have, and how the want to mix-and-much plugins across plugin manufacturers.
His arguments about the merits of the value proposition ranging from the skewed to the
nonsensical, imo.

No, Slate still offers, and from what he has stated on several occasions, plug-in purchases as well as subscriptions.... like Kush and others offer. It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

He didn't say that they didn't, he said that Steven Slate "wants to put everyone on a perpetual rental model" which seems true enough from what I've seen and read.

Hmm. For some reason my Foe list is letting your comments through again.

Well if Slate really wanted everyone on a perpetual subscription, he would not be giving them the option to buy them as well. He would either offer a Roland-sub only or a Pro Tools version where you can buy it and then pay a upgrade fee for new plug-ins.

Why is it you feel the need to answer for other people? If cfanyc felt I misinterpreted his comment, shouldn't he be the one to ask, not you? Seems like you have too much spare time on your hands.

Now back to fixing me foe list.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Foe list fixed!

[ghettosynth]

I don't blame Steve Slate for that. Thanks for the new tools at a decent price. You are still a d*ck though.

LOL! Right !?!

[Local Man]

It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

Which is funny to me that they don't incur the same vitriol on that topic. I guess they are seen as more irrelevant in the greater plugin market which is fine by me. I don't at all mind companies that offer a subscription option (and I understand concerns with the way slate manipulatively encourages that option), but those that offer subscriptions only (including adobe), I am forever done with.

[ghettosynth]

The thing that has peeved a lot of reasonable people, myself included, is the subscription scheme
where he wants to put everyone on a perpetual renter model regardless of what the need,
what the already have, and how the want to mix-and-much plugins across plugin manufacturers.
His arguments about the merits of the value proposition ranging from the skewed to the
nonsensical, imo.

No, Slate still offers, and from what he has stated on several occasions, plug-in purchases as well as subscriptions.... like Kush and others offer. It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

He didn't say that they didn't, he said that Steven Slate "wants to put everyone on a perpetual rental model" which seems true enough from what I've seen and read.

Hmm. For some reason my Foe list is letting your comments through again.

Well if Slate really wanted everyone on a perpetual subscription, he would not be giving them the option to buy them as well. He would either offer a Roland-sub only or a Pro Tools version where you can buy it and then pay a upgrade fee for new plug-ins.

We can agree to disagree on what he would do, what we know is what he says and he clearly thinks that subscriptions are better for the consumer. Moreover, I was just correcting your misrepresentation of a comment.

Why is it you feel the need to answer for other people?

Why do you get so easily offended about being wrong? I understand, that happens a lot with you, but let it go man, nobody cares.

[Robmobius]

So, giving the loyal customers the good deal allows him to extract more revenue that he wouldn't get anyway

Very true...

I'm still very cynical towards Slate Digital as well. I can't see anything that would bring me back to the loyalty I once had.

But it's such a good time to be a vst junkie! And some of those companies really look after their customers as well. A really good example is Acustica Audio. Better sounding stuff than Slate (IMO) and they offer good support and gift coupons, etc.

[ghettosynth]

It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

Which is funny to me that they don't incur the same vitriol on that topic. I guess they are seen as more irrelevant in the greater plugin market which is fine by me. I don't at all mind companies that offer a subscription option (and I understand concerns with the way slate manipulatively encourages that option),

You haven't been around, they get plenty of hate.

but those that offer subscriptions only (including adobe), I am forever done with.

It works for Adobe because Adobe is so dominant in the marketplace. I don't own anything significant from them, but if my work needed those tools, I would assume that it's just a cost of doing business.

The problem with audio companies like Slate and Roland is that they, laughably, think that they're on par with Adobe. I don't think that any plugin firm will ever be there. If I were to put my money on who could be the Adobe of the audio world it would be on firms working on A/I solutions for composition and production. In fact, Adobe might turn out to be the Adobe of audio.

[JJ_Jettflow]

It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

Which is funny to me that they don't incur the same vitriol on that topic. I guess they are seen as more irrelevant in the greater plugin market which is fine by me. I don't at all mind companies that offer a subscription option (and I understand concerns with the way slate manipulatively encourages that option), but those that offer subscriptions only (including adobe), I am forever done with.

Not really sure what Roland is thinking honestly. There are cries for them to put these up for sale but them seem against that completely. I think it may have to do with Rainlink but they not very forthcoming as to what the future is so that is just a shot in the dark.

I am a subscriber to Roland Cloud and in a few months I will be eligible for the free plug. After that, I'm not sure if I will continue.

[cfanyc]

The thing that has peeved a lot of reasonable people, myself included, is the subscription scheme
where he wants to put everyone on a perpetual renter model regardless of what the need,
what the already have, and how the want to mix-and-much plugins across plugin manufacturers.
His arguments about the merits of the value proposition ranging from the skewed to the
nonsensical, imo.

No, Slate still offers, and from what he has stated on several occasions, plug-in purchases as well as subscriptions.... like Kush and others offer. It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

He didn't say that they didn't, he said that Steven Slate "wants to put everyone on a perpetual rental model" which seems true enough from what I've seen and read.

Hmm. For some reason my Foe list is letting your comments through again.

Well if Slate really wanted everyone on a perpetual subscription, he would not be giving them the option to buy them as well. He would either offer a Roland-sub only or a Pro Tools version where you can buy it and then pay a upgrade fee for new plug-ins.

Why is it you feel the need to answer for other people? If cfanyc felt I misinterpreted his comment, shouldn't he be the one to ask, not you? Seems like you have too much spare time on your hands.

Now back to fixing me foe list.

Here is my view:

Slate wants everyone to be perpetual renter and their way of moving everyone that way is by
one one hand:
- offering affordable subscription prices
and on the other hand
- raising prices AND dropping the numbers of discounted sales/year for ownership.

If they had moved abruptly to subscription only they would
(a) face a huge PR backlash, meager adoption of the rental model,
and maybe even legal action if subscription only would mean no support of owned plugins or
inability to resell and support owned plugins, etc.
(b) would not be able to compete with other plugin makers who offer
onwership or ownership+ subscription.

But make no mistake, they do want everyone on the subscription model. Once they have
a huge chunk of the market there, and people dependent on an active subscription to be able to work
with new and OLD projects, then the price hike to the stars (TM) will begin. Slate may not be an engineering genius but he surely knows how to make $$$...

[cfanyc]

It is Roland that offers subscriptions only.

Which is funny to me that they don't incur the same vitriol on that topic. I guess they are seen as more irrelevant in the greater plugin market which is fine by me. I don't at all mind companies that offer a subscription option (and I understand concerns with the way slate manipulatively encourages that option),

You haven't been around, they get plenty of hate.

but those that offer subscriptions only (including adobe), I am forever done with.

It works for Adobe because Adobe is so dominant in the marketplace. I don't own anything significant from them, but if my work needed those tools, I would assume that it's just a cost of doing business.

The problem with audio companies like Slate and Roland is that they, laughably, think that they're on par with Adobe. I don't think that any plugin firm will ever be there. If I were to put my money on who could be the Adobe of the audio world it would be on firms working on A/I solutions for composition and production. In fact, Adobe might turn out to be the Adobe of audio.

Exactly this. Only Adobe has Photoshop, Illustrator and a host of other industry standard-setting
tools. Similarly Roland has very proprietary synths and brand recognition.

However, most plugin makers (with rare exceptions of hugely innovative companies with
patent-protected wares) deal in fully interchangeable
product. E.g., If I cannot get gf-stress I wll get arousor or disto or uad distressor etc.

[cfanyc]

So, giving the loyal customers the good deal allows him to extract more revenue that he wouldn't get anyway

Very true...

I'm still very cynical towards Slate Digital as well. I can't see anything that would bring me back to the loyalty I once had.

But it's such a good time to be a vst junkie! And some of those companies really look after their customers as well. A really good example is Acustica Audio.

correction: a really horrible example of how to treat customers.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Maybe warez is easier to control with subscriptions?