KVR Audio

todd_r · Post by **todd_r** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:48 pm

Billions of compressors, a dearth of expanders. Using Red Phat Pro at the min, any suggestion?

Tearing Riots · Post by **Tearing Riots** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:18 pm

Most 'dynamics' devices can be used as upward expanders, your daw might have one. Ratio < 1 usually indicates this.
Else for free there's ReaXComp (multiband with upward exp.), MCompressor (freely drawable transfer curve so can be up/down expander/compressor), probably lots of others as well.

heavymetalmixer · Post by **heavymetalmixer** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:30 pm

Even though it's not an expander but a gate, ReaGate is really doing at what it does and it has a lot of features.

yellowmix · Post by **yellowmix** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:50 pm

ReaXComp is a beast. If you don't need multiband simply delete the other bands. Goes down to 0.1:1.0 ratio.

If you have Komplete you have Solid Dynamics, which has an Expander. It's controlled via a range instead of ratio since it's an emulation of an SSL Channel.

If you have Waves Gold bundle or greater, good old C1 can go down to 0.5:1.0. If you have RCompressor, that does too.

If you want very precise control automated for you, check out Flux Pure Expander.

sinkmusic · Post by **sinkmusic** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:37 pm

If you like ToneBoosters, FLX4 is great at doing both compression and expansion.
Else, BCA Dynamics4 is great too.

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:28 pm

Tearing Riots wrote:Most 'dynamics' devices can be used as upward expanders

In my experience most don't do less than 1:1 ratios. It's actually quite a rare feature in compressors in general.

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:55 pm

Pro-MB - expansion, single band or multi band. Single or multi band compression and amazing as a gate.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:20 pm

yellowmix wrote: If you have Waves Gold bundle or greater, good old C1 can go down to 0.5:1.0. If you have RCompressor, that does too.

Waves C1 is just about the King of Expanders for me. Sure, lots of other Dynamic Processors do 'Expansion', but C1 does it very very well.

IIRC, it's got a couple of good presets to start off with and from there you can tweak to get what you want.

When people hear the word 'expansion' they think it makes the dynamic signal louder, which it does, in a way, but it expands the dynamic range to make the quiet bits quieter and louder bits even louder again - to give effects like gating and whatnot. So by expanding the dynamic signal it actually makes things quieter and louder at the same time.

Where as a compressor (which is what the Waves C1 is first and foremost), reduces dynamic range by making the quiet bits louder and the louder bits quieter. When it is tamed, it can be boosted. It crushes the broadband volume. From there it can be raised up. Giving the impression of it being louder overall.

Expanders increase the loudest part, and decrease the quietest part. This amplifies or increases the dynamic range. It's the absolute opposite effect to what compression does. This often gives the impression of it being quieter, but paradoxically, it can also make things sound louder as well, depending on background signal. Well, not just background signal. Due to psycho-acoustics and the way the brain perceives loudness, those extremes of dynamics are dependent on their frequency and duration - as to how much louder or quieter they are perceived to the original non-effected source. I think. Then add back in the background program material for extra effects like masking and whatnot.

I'm sure you all knew that anyway. But for noobs...

Waves C1 is an incredible Compressor/Gate/Expander. You can do some serious tricks on drums and percussion with it, not to mention tidying up vocals.

There's probably some other great expanders too, but C1 is a classic. I got mine for like a tenner or something in the market place here.

Tearing Riots · Post by **Tearing Riots** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:23 am

MogwaiBoy wrote:
Tearing Riots wrote:Most 'dynamics' devices can be used as upward expanders
In my experience most don't do less than 1:1 ratios. It's actually quite a rare feature in compressors in general.

If a device is called dynamics* I'd expect it to do some kind of expansion as well

Everglide · Post by **Everglide** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:20 am

Flux Solera

Everglide · Post by **Everglide** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:35 am

Sonalksis SV-315Mk2

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:11 am

Tearing Riots wrote:Most 'dynamics' devices can be used as upward expanders, your daw might have one. Ratio < 1 usually indicates this.
Else for free there's ReaXComp (multiband with upward exp.), MCompressor (freely drawable transfer curve so can be up/down expander/compressor), probably lots of others as well.

This is generally referred to as "upward compression," iZotope Neutron (and Ozone also IIRC) do this.

This image explains it nicely.

With upward compression the signals below a threshold are raised and peaks are left alone. This makes the signal louder but "compresses" the dynamic range. Similarly, downward compression reduces the signals that are above a level, again, compressing the dynamic range by squashing the peaks. An expander "expands" the dynamic range. This is done by either boosting the signals above a threshold (upward expansion) or reducing the signals below a threshold (downward expansion), with the latter the traditional mode. That is, something just called an expander that does not have the flexibility to switch modes is typically a downward expander.

Upward compression is sometimes called DeExpansion, that is, it is the opposite of traditional (downward) expansion and so is reversing the effect. Similarly, upward expansion is sometimes called DeCompression.

While you can do all of these, after a fashion with many compressors that have the right ratio controls, or that you can parallel, I find that it is more intuitive to use tools that are specifically designed for the purpose.

My favorite tool for this is Flux Solera which has all four modes in one plugin with a common gain visualizer along with some advanced features. My second favorite tool is iZotope Neutron, because it's always on my tracks so for just upward compression, it's always there.

Everglide · Post by **Everglide** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:37 am

Tearing Riots · Post by **Tearing Riots** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:25 am

ghettosynth wrote:This is generally referred to as "upward compression,"

I know the differences, reaxcomp does upward expansion, not sure what you are getting at.

Good post though.

todd_r · Post by **todd_r** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:51 am

Thanks for the suggestions. I use Reaper, keep forgetting about Reaxcomp. It is very good, but I find it fiddly for expansion. I wish they'd add the ability to Reacomp.

I like being able to see the transfer curve i Red Phat Pro, looks like FlX has something similar. I've got Toneboosters plugins/bundles but I must be quite be bit behind as I've not got quite a few of them now. I'll check that out. Cheers

Expanders!