Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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evilantal
KVRian
838 posts since 13 Mar, 2008 from Arnhem, Netherlands

Post Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:16 am

I happen to like a few of the EQs. Specifically BXQ, FIVER and PUREQ.

There's not much wrong with the sound on those. Granted, there's the cramping in the high frequencies. But I don't actually hear that in "normal use".

The compressors definitely have issues in the useability department.
Demo work: https://soundcloud.com/antaln
My post/prog rock band: http://www.sylvium.com
Music for media: http://www.myendlessy.com

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plexuss
KVRAF
2584 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:09 am

So it seems like the plan was to learn how to make audio plugins while selling them. ok... I guess, if you thought it all through. Looks like that wasn't done or done successfully. Free lesson to us all. Well, except those that bought the plugins - a lesson with a bit of a cost.

How to mitigate - don't leave any stone unturned in terms of the usual pitfalls. Implement new pitfalls as experienced.

So now we have another pit fall - if a new dev comes on the scene, check forums etc first to if they've been up to anything that might impact your purchase decision.

It's crazy how the audio software sector is so rife with perils for the consumer. It acutally makes me stop buying products because sometimes I just don't have the time or energy to look into every changeable nook and cranny that may influence my puchase decision. There should be standards. Or at least best practices. It's quite an undisciplined wasteland in that regard. :phones:

elxsound
KVRAF
4607 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:34 am

@Plexuss... Well, yes.

Sadly, there's not much that can be done, because even the well established developers can go away, just as easily as the newcomers who are in over their heads. Just look at Camel Audio and Redmatica, or even look to NI's Kore line... those three can represent a very sizable monetary lesson in purchasing software (and all 3 are ones I dropped good money on).

I can say that these days, I'm extremely selective of what I purchase, but stopping short of only supporting developers with long term revenue plans such as those that rely on subscription based methods, its extremely hard to know where your money is safe long term with anything.

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plexuss
KVRAF
2584 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:42 am

elxsound wrote:@Plexuss... Well, yes.

Sadly, there's not much that can be done, because even the well established developers can go away, just as easily as the newcomers who are in over their heads. Just look at Camel Audio and Redmatica, or even look to NI's Kore line... those three can represent a very sizable monetary lesson in purchasing software (and all 3 are ones I dropped good money on).

I can say that these days, I'm extremely selective of what I purchase, but stopping short of only supporting developers with long term revenue plans such as those that rely on subscription based methods, its extremely hard to know where your money is safe long term with anything.
A track record of observable evidence goes a long way to mitigate risks. The risk mitigation is inversely proportional to GAS. :phones:

MogwaiBoy
KVRAF
2988 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:41 am

plexuss wrote: It's crazy how the audio software sector is so rife with perils for the consumer.
I agree. Probably a good rule of thumb is to mostly stick to large developers that you think will be around for a long time or if you go with small developers try not to pay too much, knowing they could go belly-up at any time.

If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, my wife and kids would get nothing from the thousands of dollars worth of plugins in my computer. In that regard, plugins are not true physical assets or investments and are only worth the enjoyment and satisfaction they give you when you put them on a track and they work wonderfully.

No plugin should be over $50 in my opinion :P I have games on my phone that took teams of dozens of people months to develop, and they cost $1.98 - what's the difference? It's all 1's and 0's :P

RafaelMorgan
KVRist
139 posts since 14 May, 2008

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:30 pm

MogwaiBoy wrote:No plugin should be over $50 in my opinion :P I have games on my phone that took teams of dozens of people months to develop, and they cost $1.98 - what's the difference? It's all 1's and 0's :P
That's actually a fairly good point, sir. :neutral:

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plexuss
KVRAF
2584 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:57 pm

MogwaiBoy wrote: If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, my wife and kids would get nothing from the thousands of dollars worth of plugins in my computer. In that regard, plugins are not true physical assets or investments and are only worth the enjoyment and satisfaction they give you when you put them on a track and they work wonderfully.
If you document your accounts, logins and products that can be sold and transferred, you could leave that to your survivors to sort out and get some $ out of them. Maybe delegate someone you know who knows all about plugins and selling them as a contact for your family to get some help.

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evilantal
KVRian
838 posts since 13 Mar, 2008 from Arnhem, Netherlands

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:54 pm

MogwaiBoy wrote:
plexuss wrote: It's crazy how the audio software sector is so rife with perils for the consumer.
I agree. Probably a good rule of thumb is to mostly stick to large developers that you think will be around for a long time or if you go with small developers try not to pay too much, knowing they could go belly-up at any time.

No plugin should be over $50 in my opinion :P I have games on my phone that took teams of dozens of people months to develop, and they cost $1.98 - what's the difference? It's all 1's and 0's :P
I fully understand.

If everyone went with this, though, it would be a risk to the industry.
Without new developers getting a chance to enter the arena against acceptable profit/loss conditions the industry will stagnate. Taking some risk had to be a part of that. That's how businesses and industries innovate.

About the cheap iPhone apps... Don't forget that our market is very niche. If you can sell a million apps vs maybe couple hundred plugins, you can afford to charge 1.98 to cover your costs and make profit.
Last edited by evilantal on Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Demo work: https://soundcloud.com/antaln
My post/prog rock band: http://www.sylvium.com
Music for media: http://www.myendlessy.com

swatwork
KVRist
299 posts since 12 Jul, 2006

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:51 am

MogwaiBoy wrote:I have games on my phone that took teams of dozens of people months to develop, and they cost $1.98 - what's the difference?
The difference is that developers of mobile games can expect to sell millions so a price tag as low as $2 will still provide a profitable amount of revenue. Being a much smaller market, plugin developers can expect to sell thousands, at which point a low price tag becomes commercially unviable.

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8738 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:20 am

With some Devs you can spot the signs early on.

Analog Obsession was one of them:

Drastic pricing policy changes
Relatively new products announced as Legacy
Poor customer/forum relations
Poor product descriptions
Poor product update schedule
Refusal to act upon customer criticisms/advice

Im pretty sure Im not the only one that read the signs, sat back and watched as our intuition was proven correct.

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DJErmac
KVRian
714 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:40 am

VariKusBrainZ wrote:With some Devs you can spot the signs early on.

Drastic pricing policy changes
Relatively new products announced as Legacy
Poor customer/forum relations
Poor product descriptions
Poor product update schedule
Refusal to act upon customer criticisms/advice
+WTF name :scared:

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vurt
addled muppet weed
40646 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:27 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Aloysius wrote:How much are they selling their company for?
Wanna go halfsies? :D

you could start a perfume company.
is your man a synth nerd? smell like circuits and lure him back to you away from that pesky synth!

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
40646 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:31 am

MogwaiBoy wrote: If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, my wife and kids would get nothing from the thousands of dollars worth of plugins in my computer.

sorry kids your dad was hit by a bus :(

aww that's sad. oh well.

can we still use his vsts?



no

:x :x :x

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Rockatansky
KVRist
267 posts since 3 Jun, 2017

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:30 am

MogwaiBoy wrote:If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, my wife and kids would get nothing from the thousands of dollars worth of plugins in my computer.
Quite the console-ception moment there... where the bus becomes the compressor. :ud:
vurt wrote:you could start a perfume company.
"Valve No. 6L6" - sign me up for a flask.
"Eau de Transisteur"... maybe not so much, thanks. :scared:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Im pretty sure Im not the only one that read the signs, sat back and watched as our intuition was proven correct.
plexuss wrote:A track record of observable evidence goes a long way to mitigate risks. The risk mitigation is inversely proportional to GAS.
$29 for a compressor or equalizer is an OK investment, if it offers something unique, rare or just really practical.

I downloaded the first batch of plugins tunca shared, they didn't excite me. No random mojo, no variation in the output signal, absolutely static, no non-linearities. Doesn't have to be a bad thing as such, but for something that claims to be "analog"... the host software of my choice comes with a perfectly capable sterile biquad EQ, so why would I pay $29 for something that implies an analog heritage but clearly doesn't have it. Then the way he discarded any critique as inappropriate, eventually offered me money to fix some machine-generated garbage code that he couldn't debug, all the while keeping up this "carefully modelled" and "I can design circuits in Spice" facade, ditching his old products and asking ridiculous prices. Just seemed dishonest, I guess that's what made me skeptical and keep my distance as a potential customer.

Compare it to Kilohearts. I love their stuff to bits. Not all of it, but some of it. That distortion plugin, the gate, the frequency shifter. One-trick ponies, but excellent at their tricks. No wannabe-analog implications, no "vintage this", "modelled that", just no-nonsense processors that sound great, perform and control well, have no routing/gain staging problems, and happen to be quite affordable. They don't look like "that Neumann EQ" or "that SSL compressor", no 3D anywhere, but they do what they advertise and what else could I ask for. I had the chance to talk to some of them in person, they seemed like sensible and funny people with background knowledge and an honest product. That's why I won't think twice when it comes to purchasing their plugins, old or new, if I ever need or want more. (No, they didn't encourage or pay me to write this.) :)

Point being: I guess I also saw it slowly unfolding, but others have similarly short track records and are a lot easier to trust.
Confucamus.

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Rockatansky
KVRist
267 posts since 3 Jun, 2017

Re: Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

Post Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:36 am

vurt wrote:sorry kids your dad was hit by a bus :(
aww that's sad. oh well.
can we still use his vsts?

no
:x :x :x
That awkward long walk to the open coffin with an open laptop... because daddy locked his machine with his fingerprint. :lol:
Confucamus.

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