Waves - WUP vs sale prices

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
4376 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:46 pm

Sahul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:07 am
There's an even better deal right now: upgrade your Gold license to Gold + RenMaxx at Waves.com for less than $24* (use the YNY23 coupon for a 10% discount). This way you get additional plugins and 1 full year of WUP. This is what I did yesterday, by the way.

(* I also had the Renaissance Bass registered)
You sir, have won our locally coveted Champion of the Day award.

That is what I struggle to understand. A $99 deal for Gold, $225 for Gold (YES ON ONE COMPUTER) wup, or an upgrade path for $24. It's doesn't seem like very logical pricing to me but maybe I just woke up on the complete bastard side of the bed today. Thanks Sahul.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
4376 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:49 pm

Andy Gone wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:24 am
And even if you really need it, still don't forget to tick the box "using plugins on one machine at a time. This will significantly decrease the WUP cost.
Yes, correct. But not in this case. Thanks for the advice though. Sadly I've been using Waves for over 10 years and I am well versed in their operating procedures. I just don't understand them.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
4376 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:52 pm

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:38 pm
N/M. Don't really care TBH.
No hard feelings. I never really had tears. I do appreciate you trying to help but for me personally, the yelling and swearing didn't quite hit the sweet spot of rational dialogue.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10818 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:53 pm

morelia wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:52 pm
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:38 pm
N/M. Don't really care TBH.
No hard feelings. I never really had tears. I do appreciate you trying to help but for me personally, the yelling and swearing didn't quite hit the sweet spot of rational dialogue.
I apologise for flying off the deep end but this question gets asked pretty much daily and is easily answered by a quick google.

Anyway glad you're sorted now.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
4376 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:55 pm

MogwaiBoy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:18 pm
It shows just how flawed the WUP system is.

But they are determined to keep it alive because they make craploads of money for essentially no service provided. It's free money for Waves.

It's like with computer printers where it's cheaper to buy a new printer than it is to replace the ink in your existing one - that's a classic loss leader tactic but at least you are getting something for your dollar.
Bingo! And to me, it would be common decency and respect for your customers to make the wup price for a product match the current sale price for the full product.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
4376 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:58 pm

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:53 pm
I apologise for flying off the deep end but this question gets asked pretty much daily and is easily answered by a quick google.

Anyway glad you're sorted now.
It's all good. Bullys removed my offended chip at school. I could have put in more information to indicate that I'm not an inexperienced Waves customer. Unfortunately I only had time for a quick rant.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10818 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:59 pm

morelia wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:58 pm
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:53 pm
I apologise for flying off the deep end but this question gets asked pretty much daily and is easily answered by a quick google.

Anyway glad you're sorted now.
It's all good. Bullys removed my offended chip at school. I could have put in more information to indicate that I'm not an inexperienced Waves customer. Unfortunately I only had time for a quick rant.
8)
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

User avatar
waltercruz
KVRAF
1672 posts since 4 Dec, 2011 from Brasília, Brazil

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:44 pm

morelia wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:37 pm
waltercruz wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:15 am
Is usually cheaper to upgrade to next bundle level than WUP.
Now that is interesting. I'll keep an eye out for that.
go to your userarea on Waves site, try the upgrade area. I bet that the upgrade for the next level (Platinum) will be cheaper or almost the same price than just WUP your current Gold.

chk071
KVRAF
18928 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:58 pm

If only i'd get a Euro for every silly thread like this, which totally misunderstands everything economy and prices are about, i could really make a nice living. :P

User avatar
pixel85
KVRist
372 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:29 pm

Can somebody move this tread to Waves CLA WavesWUPTopicBucket please? Or all 8x8 slots are full already? ;)

User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
4376 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:40 pm

chk071 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:58 pm
If only i'd get a Euro for every silly thread like this, which totally misunderstands everything economy and prices are about, i could really make a nice living. :P
I don't feel like I've misunderstood anything. I just believe, personally (i.e. nothing to do with anyone else) that it is bad form to drop the price of a product below the price of wup. So basically, it is my opinion, not comprehension that is the problem. Although you may be correct. If I am in fact the idiot you describe I would probably feel the same way I do now. Unless of course I'm wrong and idiots actually know they are idiots.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

lfm
KVRAF
4955 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:09 pm

MogwaiBoy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:18 pm
It shows just how flawed the WUP system is.

But they are determined to keep it alive because they make craploads of money for essentially no service provided. It's free money for Waves.
Some odd examples rise with these campaigns.
Other than that I think you are unfair.

- How much do you pay for home insurance - every year, year after year?
- How often do you get burgled?

So if to update wup every five years - that is all you have to do - since v9 has been free updates all the way until v10 arrived. It's not like subscribe it must be active constantly.
- well, exception is that new plugins may be added to a bundle you have, and to get that extra plugin you need to be in wup. Fortunately Vitamin was added to Gold as I was in wup.

My bup expired 2014, and Waves have always been helpful with their support service - despite this no-wup.

Determined like no other companies support - to get you up and running again. Tracking to narrow down and acknowledge a bug etc.

Waves Central is not a very good piece of code - and flawed on download side mostly ending in incomplete install. Sending licenses up/down from cloud/account worked fine for me though. Last time I used it was two years ago.

They would have sold me more plugins if Waves Central worked as it should. And will do wup to get v10 all over what I have. Not mix v9 and v10 stuff. But this when I feel I got a lot of time to handle issues with install with Waves Central.

jochicago
KVRist
392 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:40 pm

Something to keep in mind:
Waves does a lot of maintenance on their plugins. They also have exceptional customer service. How do they budget for that? WUP.

If you want your plugins to continue to work after years, on your new computer, new OS, etc, and you want support when something goes wrong, we have to pay for these things they don't just happen. Waves came up with WUP. I think it's flawed, but that's what they have. Other companies don't have anything, and the plugins end up abandonware or even simply unsupported by a perfectly well-known company (i.e. see McDSP and Windows woes).

I have plenty of problems with Waves. The installer tends to break things. The rules for license transfer border on draconian. The WUP is convoluted. But ultimately we need a way to pay for long-term support. I'd rather the company has some system in place to professionally guarantee the plugins, vs a developer that has no way to charge for maintenance/support and so simply lets things break down over time. We've seen plenty of that and nobody is happy with that either.

Also, I appreciate having a WUP thread every couple of months. It's important to stay abreast of latest developments, and the odd deal to be had :D
They would have sold me more plugins if Waves Central worked as it should
Yeap, love-hate relationship. The pain of days of lost productivity is what holds me back. If they could go to work and really cleanup their installer/copy-protection system to make it flawless, that alone would significantly improve their profile with people like me, and their sales.
When I see a Waves plugin I ask myself: is it worth losing a day of productivity having to reinstall Waves Central 7 times in a row? That's factored in the cost decision. I'm not buying CLA Mixhub for a penny over $29 in great part for this reason. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm back to willing to pay $5. Just the thought of it is raising my blood pressure.

User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
4376 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:00 pm

jochicago wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:40 pm
Something to keep in mind:
Waves does a lot of maintenance on their plugins. They also have exceptional customer service. How do they budget for that? WUP.
Would it be fair to say that implies that Companies that don't have WUP but do have perpetual licenses are not maintaining their products or supporting their customers as well as Waves?
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6

jochicago
KVRist
392 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Re: Waves WUP

Post Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:45 pm

...that without charging for continued support, other developers may be on a slippery slope trying to provide free support and updates for years without additional revenue.

Obviously some developers do a great job providing long-term free updates and support. Kudos to them, and we enjoy supporting those guys.

Others resort to releasing "v2" of their plugins instead of fixing problems with the current version, making you buy a new plugin instead of paying a maintenance fee like WUP. Others simply don't get around to fixing things at all because they feel there's no money in it, or they make you wait 4 years for an update.

I look at the total cost of ownership, and the life I'm going to get out of these plugins over many years. Waves can't sell a flagship plugin at a massive discount and ALSO give us free support over the years for multiple computer and OS. Realistically something's gotta give. Other developers charge $200-$350 for an SSL channel strip. Waves right now is charging $70-$100 for their SSL channels. How many times would I have to pay WUP every 3-4 years (when changing computer) before I've paid as much as the going market value of these plugins?

As a user, the WUP program means that when I change my computer in a couple years, I'll pay WUP and have the latest version + transition support if something goes wrong. For comparison, I also have the Sonivox Premier bundle - what will happen to that 2 years from now? How many of us are willing to bet I'll be able to install my Sonivox plugins on my next PC, and the one after that?

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