Valhalla Vintage Verb and Room: How do you use them?

[LoveEnigma18]

I have been using VVV for some time now and I really like it. However, I also got Room (from KVR today), as I liked the sound of it after demoing it for some time.

As per my relatively less experience and some quick experiments, I observed the following:

Vintage Verb: Drums, Synths, Pads, Acoustic Instruments (Pianos/Guitars/etc.)

Room: Drums, Percussion, Vocals, Acoustic Instruments (Pianos/Guitars/etc.)

I wanted to check how you guys are applying these reverbs and looking for some advice on it.

How would you distribute these instruments between the two: Drums, Percussion, Bass (synth type), Synths, Pads, Pianos, Guitars, Vocals, etc.

Thank you!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Each is capable of working on a wide variety of sounds, including everything you listed. So my advice: think differently about them.

I'd use VintageVerb when I wanted a more colored, less realistic, slicker (modulated) sounding verb. That would almost certainly be synths, I also really dig the Nonlin mode on snares (can work on toms and even too), but it could be guitars, percussion, vocals, pianos, etc. It's more about the vibe of the mix/reverb sound I'm going for, and when I think "80's" or "lush" I reach for VintageVerb or ReLab's LX480.

Where Room would get used is when I want something a bit more realistic, like a natural ambience. Transparent. So if I'm trying to put some space around an acoustic guitar, or add a touch of ambience to drums, or put a bit of distance between the singer and the microphone because it sounds too close...stuff like that.

So it's not so much about which verb for which instruments, it's a question of what type of reverb sound I want: something colorful and synthetic (VintageVerb), or something more transparent and realistic (Room).

[Delta Sign]

Pretty much what Funkybot's Evil Twin said.

VVV is great for adding lush reverbs to things, and VRoom is great for putting things into a physical space, at least that's how I think of the two.

That's of course no hard rule. For example, the Chaotic Chamber algo in VVV is also really great for ambiences, which is something I'd usually use VRoom for. The saturation on it works wonders on gluing the source and the reverb together.

[voidhead23]

i always find in funny when people say VintageVerb is lush and Room is clean and transparent...i use Room and keep going back to it because i think it sounds so much deeper, larger and more 'ambient' than Vintage. Vintage sounds really dark, sparse and distant to me, like it doesn't cover the sound enough. i just use the 'imperfect' algorithms from Room (it can also do the dirty modulated Vintage thing...). And in my head, i feel like i should like Vintage better...but i just don't.

i think they're just different flavors. Use them alternately and pick which one gives you results you're happy with with whatever material you're working on. i think where Vintage excels is the simplicity of controls and ease of use. Room is a little too much.

[elxsound]

What Funkybot's Evil Twin said.

The developer for Valhalla DSP has written much about what he was after when designing these. Taking the mystery out of it should help you immensely in choosing what to use and when.

[SoundPorn]

I think of them like when I want a dark tone I reach for VRoom, when I want a Lexicon/Eventide type tone I reach for VVV. So that means I'm usually reaching for VRoom lol.

[SoundPorn]

I use them both on the same thing alot tho

[MogwaiBoy]

I agree that Room gets overlooked as a capable lush/ambient verb, but that's mostly in the way the plugin is named and marketed which steers it towards the realistic spaces type of use.

Room can often sound richer, deeper and more classy than VVV.

The vintage modes on VV can be grainy but sometimes a perfect fit.

[foosnark]

Generally, if I want a voice to sound like it's in a big abstract space of some kind, it usually gets Valhalla Plate, VVV or TB Reverb 4.

If I want a more synthetic way to fill in background space or add some modulation without it sounding too much like a chorus/phaser, I will go for Twangstrom, convolution, TB Reverb 4, delay-as-reverb (Colour Copy, EchoBode, Ratshack Reverb etc.) or hardware (Dark World, Afterneath, MS-70CDR).

If I want a more subtle bit of a live feel on a sound with a fast attack, I'll reach for Valhalla Room or convolution.

Usually I prefer less realistic reverbs but it really depends on the material.

These are not hard and fast rules by any means, and sometimes I just pick an effect at random and see how it works.

[foosnark]

And now I'm sitting here playing with Valhalla Room in detail... Isolating the early and late reflections, etc. Really rediscovering it... I think I may be using it a bit more in the future

[Neon Breath]

I always try to use tools and plugins in a way they were not intented to, to open up new creative avenues and achieve happy accidents.

[Winstontaneous]

The magic of Room is in the detailed Early & Late Reflection controls (including Size & Modulation for both) and the variety you can get by adjusting the ER/LR balance with the Depth slider. At first I saw Room as more of a bright, realistic reverb, then I discovered the Dark and Aliens (LV-426/Narcissus/Nostromo/Sulaco) modes. Aside from the darker tone, these have different modulation, and some algorithms have a slower attack.

VVV gets an incredible range of reverbs with a minimum of controls. IMO the key to this one is understanding how Size & Attack affect the different algorithms. While VVV is often thought of as a dark reverb, something like Smooth Plate in NOW mode with lower HighShelf Damping settings can get plenty bright. Nonlin algorithm is brilliant, and in Ambience mode Attack balances ER/LR.

Though I have many other top-notch reverbs (2C Audio, Relab, Lexicon, Exponential Audio) I use VVV & Room a lot on voice, synths, guitars, percussion and general buss duties. I've had more than a few situations (especially voices) where Room just sounds notably better than anything else when dialed in. On top of this I love Valhalla's design/scalability, low CPU, and overall philosophy (simplicity, no-BS pricing and reasonable copy protection).

[s28]

Nice post Winstantanious, you make good points.

I have used Vintage Verb as my main/only reverb for 5 or 6 years and still get new sounds out of it. It can do so many things with it's relatively simple controls.

I'm considering getting Room as well, I've never got it as I feel like Vintage Verb is enough. However the depth slider and the control you get over the early and late with Room, as you mention is really unique and makes spaces vintage verb can't. I don't think having both would feel too much.

As to the original post... i use Vintage Verb on anything and everything. Very broad range of sounds you can get from it. Processing the verb pre or post yields even further variations.

I wouldn't second guess or overthink it too much. Just use them and see what you like the sound of then roll with it.

[Sound Mechanics]

I find you can get the Vroom to sound quite close to VVV, although the VVV gets there quicker and it's easier to use.
They both sound very good.

On a side note... I tend to use reverb fully wet nowadays and just get the time, decay etc. right for the sound source. I find certain sources sound better fully wet then adjusted. I can never quite make my mind up with a blend. I think it sounds more authentic to a real space when wet, and the Valhalla verbs are great for that.

Are you mostly a blender or full wetter when it comes to reverb, I think it make quite a difference to the sound?

[dubguy99]

I've actually started using them both on a single sound. Generally VVV as the main reverb for texture and colour and a few % room for better stereo image and depth.