Zenith by Audiaire

[UlasK]

Has anyone tried out the demo for Zenith with hardware? I tried the demo out yesterday with software and it was a big headache trying to get it set up correctly because of missing / incorrect MIDI mapping files (they were missing because they're not included in the demo and after looking at videos, reading through the manual, and poking around in the software, it was finally revealed by support that they didn't include the necessary files in the demo). Then after receiving the MIDI mapping files from support via email, they still didn't work because they're not in the correct format for the software ( I tried it out on several Arturia soft synths).

I believe I was the one that sent you the correct MIDI maps later on. We fixed the issues with all the Arturia maps and actually included them in an updated installer which you can get at: http://www.audiaire.com/getzenith

[David]

…
I highly recommend anyone that is interested in the modulation possibilities of this plugin to check out Bitwig Studio. …

Very cool, indeed; I've just gotten BW3 , but haven't yet really dug in…dunno what's keeping me!:)

Do you think one could as easily set up and save multi-modulator templates in Bitwig that any plugins could be dropped into? I assume you could build unique, complex systems around each of your favorite synths as tracks, and just call these up everytime… Or maybe there's some better way? Can modulator Grids be made?

And ergonomically, how would the BW interface with, say, 10-15 modulators active, compare to the elegant Zenith gui with the same number?

Once you'd figured out how to map BW modulators to Z knobs, I guess you could easily create a handful of Zenith tracks to make the best of both BW and Z at the same time, each saved for easy deployment…

Fun to fantasize; I wonder if setups like these would be as fun to actually use…?

[enCiphered]

It´s really a strange attitude to come to an official thread of a developer trying to present his new product, point to other software products and post workarounds how something could be achieved without it.

[David]

I admit I'm still baffled by the whole MIDI maps thing; never used one, or even noticed I HAD any. Where's the one needed for Omnisphere located? Or any of them, really. Do these come from Audiaire or the plugin-makers?

I'm not finding it difficult to hand-link with MIDI learn, and even with easily a hundred synths, very few I've got have Zenith presets; but the presets are useless without maps, right?

[David]

It´s really a strange attitude to come to an official thread of a developer trying to present his new product, point to other software products and post workarounds how something could be achieved without it.

Seems like SOP around KVR:)

[Sharooz]

It´s really a strange attitude to come to an official thread of a developer trying to present his new product, point to other software products and post workarounds how something could be achieved without it.

Thank you. This is genuinely infuriating.

[Sharooz]

I admit I'm still baffled by the whole MIDI maps thing; never used one, or even noticed I HAD any. Where's the one needed for Omnisphere located? Or any of them, really. Do these come from Audiaire or the plugin-makers?

I'm not finding it difficult to hand-link with MIDI learn, and even with easily a hundred synths, very few I've got have Zenith presets; but the presets are useless without maps, right?

A lot of soft synths work without MIDI maps and virtually all hardware works without MIDI maps.
The maps just make it easy for you device to permanently remember the assignments in Zenith, even when you change the sound presets in your devices. If you make your own assignments you can simply save your project in your DAW and both Zenith and your receiving device will 'remember' the assignments.

[Sharooz]

SO far, though, this ability is NOT supported by a MIDI Learn function, which is weird, but I guess the assumption is that Host Automation is what most users might want to do with these knobs if not internally modulating them, and it's only because automation is enabled for them that e.g., the Modulator MIDI FX in Logic can be assigned to them. To add modulation from some other MIDI FX, I had to use the Modifer MIDI FX in Logic, which can also target Zenith's knobs AND will pass MIDI messages coming into it on to Zenith. So, I'm assuming that any similar functionality in other DAWs will work similarly…and that ALL DAWs and users will greatly benefit from MIDI Learn being added to Zenith's controls to eliminate the need for such workarounds—I certainly hope so!!
Come ON, Audiaire, you're SO close—just a LITTLE more work and you're THERE!!

I highly recommend anyone that is interested in the modulation possibilities of this plugin to check out Bitwig Studio. In this DAW, you can modulate just about any parameter in any instruments and effects (software or hardware), which is vastly more extensive than the options of this plugin. What appealed to me about Zenith was the Sequencer section, which I just realized can be duplicated in Bitwig Studio as well - albeit with a bit of set up time to customize it to your preferences (mostly referring to the GridFX or PolyGrid devices of Bitwig - aside from the Steps modulator sequencer that is available from the regular modulators). I also like the layout of the Zenith sequences in how you can switch between Seq presets pretty quickly and some cool sequence editing options. This can be done in Bitwig as well, but just in a slightly different way. Also Zenith has 4 LFOs, 1 envelope, 6 Macros, while Bitwig has unlimited LFOs, Envelopes, Macros with a lot more options of routing and MIDI learning of these modulators. The Chord Generator and Scaler options of Zenith are also available in Bitwig with a ton of different modulation possibilities. So if you really want a modulator's dream platform check out Bitwig, but this plugin can come in handy if you only want to use another DAW with only the modulation possibilities of this plugin.

Apples and oranges. I personally love Bitwig, however Zenith offers extensive MIDI modulation in a vast range of DAWs and as a MIDI FX , *and * comes with 150+ device presets (more to follow soon), *and* comes at a fraction of the price, *and* comes with 100 lane modulation presets (I've yet to see this elsewhere). If you came to troll, you picked the wrong day!

[Kalamata Kid]

Just had a fiddle with the demo in Logic and am very impressed…with the potential here. I hadn't realized how strong the MIDI sequencing features were in addition to the CC stuff, and was delighted to see that you can, with some effort, actually assign outside modulators to the mod knobs in Zenith, and not just the sequencer lanes, LFOs, and Envelopes inside Zenith.

SO far, though, this ability is NOT supported by a MIDI Learn function, which is weird, but I guess the assumption is that Host Automation is what most users might want to do with these knobs if not internally modulating them, and it's only because automation is enabled for them that e.g., the Modulator MIDI FX in Logic can be assigned to them. To add modulation from some other MIDI FX, I had to use the Modifer MIDI FX in Logic, which can also target Zenith's knobs AND will pass MIDI messages coming into it on to Zenith. So, I'm assuming that any similar functionality in other DAWs will work similarly…and that ALL DAWs and users will greatly benefit from MIDI Learn being added to Zenith's controls to eliminate the need for such workarounds—I certainly hope so!!

Unfortunately, even with a year's worth of development, Audiaire didn't think, or see fit, to add MIDI THRU, either, which is a total shame, also I hope soon rectified.

I'd assumed at first that this was built in to the various Seq modes, but no…
The only way I can get another MIDI FX above Zenith in the Logic MIDI FX rack (or anywhere else where you can stack up MIDI FX) to send CC data to the instrument is to turn Zenith completely OFF. Why doesn't, for example, a setting of NOTE in Z's Seq Settings allow Parameter mods from another FX above it to pass thru!? Or a setting of PARAM allow MIDI note data from other arps and sequencers to come through while Zenith does it's CC magic?? Until this is fixed, Zenith isn't playing well with others and it isn't much use to me.

Once these two things are added, tho, I'd have no hesitation is considering Zenith a fabulous new tool, basically a Grand Central switching station for building and saving really robust MIDI modulation networks, something I've been trying to accomplish with big collections of MIDI FX parts and tools for a LONG time. I REALLY hope Zenith and Audiaire fully rise to the challenge by acknowledging that there are other modulation tools already out there that do equally if not even more fascinating things, and the Zenith COULD be the one that Rules them All.

Come ON, Audiaire, you're SO close—just a LITTLE more work and you're THERE!!

Thanks for you insights.

[David]

Sharooz said:

A lot of soft synths work without MIDI maps and virtually all hardware works without MIDI maps.
The maps just make it easy for you device to permanently remember the assignments in Zenith, even when you change the sound presets in your devices. If you make your own assignments you can simply save your project in your DAW and both Zenith and your receiving device will 'remember' the assignments.

I love the idea of mod assignments that don't change with synth preset changes, which isn't what a DAW project offers, is it, using Zenith?

So, with Omnisphere for instance, where do I find the maps? (I assume that since there's a preset for it, that this is possible, though I couldn't find anything.) And how can I save new ones?

[Sharooz]

SO far, though, this ability is NOT supported by a MIDI Learn function, which is weird, but I guess the assumption is that Host Automation is what most users might want to do with these knobs if not internally modulating them, and it's only because automation is enabled for them that e.g., the Modulator MIDI FX in Logic can be assigned to them. To add modulation from some other MIDI FX, I had to use the Modifer MIDI FX in Logic, which can also target Zenith's knobs AND will pass MIDI messages coming into it on to Zenith. So, I'm assuming that any similar functionality in other DAWs will work similarly…and that ALL DAWs and users will greatly benefit from MIDI Learn being added to Zenith's controls to eliminate the need for such workarounds—I certainly hope so!!
Come ON, Audiaire, you're SO close—just a LITTLE more work and you're THERE!!

I highly recommend anyone that is interested in the modulation possibilities of this plugin to check out Bitwig Studio. In this DAW, you can modulate just about any parameter in any instruments and effects (software or hardware), which is vastly more extensive than the options of this plugin. What appealed to me about Zenith was the Sequencer section, which I just realized can be duplicated in Bitwig Studio as well - albeit with a bit of set up time to customize it to your preferences (mostly referring to the GridFX or PolyGrid devices of Bitwig - aside from the Steps modulator sequencer that is available from the regular modulators). I also like the layout of the Zenith sequences in how you can switch between Seq presets pretty quickly and some cool sequence editing options. This can be done in Bitwig as well, but just in a slightly different way. Also Zenith has 4 LFOs, 1 envelope, 6 Macros, while Bitwig has unlimited LFOs, Envelopes, Macros with a lot more options of routing and MIDI learning of these modulators. The Chord Generator and Scaler options of Zenith are also available in Bitwig with a ton of different modulation possibilities. So if you really want a modulator's dream platform check out Bitwig, but this plugin can come in handy if you only want to use another DAW with only the modulation possibilities of this plugin.

Apples and oranges. I personally love Bitwig, however Zenith offers extensive MIDI modulation in a vast range of DAWs and as a MIDI FX , *and * comes with 150+ device presets (more to follow soon), *and* comes at a fraction of the price, *and* comes with 100 lane modulation presets (I've yet to see this elsewhere) *and* hundreds of lane modifier options. If I didn't know better I'd say you've come to troll

Edit: Again, love Bitwig and consider the devs good friends, however I'd love to know how this statement checks out vs Zenith. Care to quantify?

"In this DAW, you can modulate just about any parameter in any instruments and effects (software or hardware), which is vastly more extensive than the options of this plugin."

[Sharooz]

Sharooz said:

A lot of soft synths work without MIDI maps and virtually all hardware works without MIDI maps.
The maps just make it easy for you device to permanently remember the assignments in Zenith, even when you change the sound presets in your devices. If you make your own assignments you can simply save your project in your DAW and both Zenith and your receiving device will 'remember' the assignments.

I love the idea of mod assignments that don't change with synth preset changes, which isn't what a DAW project offers, is it, using Zenith?

So, with Omnisphere for instance, where do I find the maps? (I assume that since there's a preset for it, that this is possible, though I couldn't find anything.) And how can I save new ones?

Yes - once a MIDI map is loaded into most soft synths the CC assignments won't change as its sound preset is changed. In Serum for example if you take the default MIDI map and replace it with ours, the CCs will be permanently mapped to the Zenith Serum preset in perpetuity

[David]

^^^
…and in Omnisphere?

How to tell if a synth can save or use maps?

[sureno]

Any insight on how to use the Novation peak xml file?

[mtamayo]

[/quote]

Apples and oranges. I personally love Bitwig, however Zenith offers extensive MIDI modulation in a vast range of DAWs and as a MIDI FX , *and * comes with 150+ device presets (more to follow soon), *and* comes at a fraction of the price, *and* comes with 100 lane modulation presets (I've yet to see this elsewhere). If you came to troll, you picked the wrong day!
[/quote]

Not sure why you're getting infuriated? I didn't say anything negative about Zenith (other than the initial troubles I had with the demo). . . I'm just a Bitwig fanboy and thought I'd point out if you're a fan of this plugin, then you should definitely check out Bitwig. The features aren't really apples and oranges, other than the fact that one is integrated into a DAW, and the other is a plugin with presets. I was actually going to purchase Zenith because I do recognize these features you point out here, and to have the best of both worlds - no need to get all salty.