Need Help With Trance Project

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:29 pm

Delta Sign wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:17 pm
If you think it needs one, than yes, otherwise no. It's still a creative process, there is no way how things have to be done. Just do what sounds right to you.
If you think the transient has to be more pronounced, than it's certainly an option.
I find that it really makes this particular kick snap more, which is what I'm going for in my "test" run.

Trying out different things as I go through the tutorials. For now, trying to see if I can duplicate. Once I get to the point where I can make any sound I want, then I'll start thinking creatively.

You can't bake a cake from scratch without a recipe until you have a basic idea of how to bake a cake from a recipe.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Just had the surprise of my life. Listening to my first Hardstyle stuff (really didn't think I'd like it) and this one just blew me away. Absolutely LOVE IT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bJY2UwoZuI

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:43 pm

You know, I'm trying to figure out why I liked that Hardstyle track so much and then it hit me.

Listen to this mid 60s track. Yeah, mid 60s and check the beat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j66aB9r1go

Music today isn't all that far removed from music of years ago.

JoaquinAce
KVRist
70 posts since 8 Apr, 2018 from SC, USA

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:58 pm

Haha, there are threads and threads out there on hardstyle kick synthesis. Its about the body and the tok. Yes, the tok :).You are talking more about classic hardstyle. The sub genres of hardstyle have evolved over time and now you get hardcore, nucore, rawstyle etc... You are in for an adventure :).
Artist name: Joaquin Ace
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-654529282

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:28 pm

JoaquinAce wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:58 pm
Haha, there are threads and threads out there on hardstyle kick synthesis. Its about the body and the tok. Yes, the tok :).You are talking more about classic hardstyle. The sub genres of hardstyle have evolved over time and now you get hardcore, nucore, rawstyle etc... You are in for an adventure :).
I'm closing in on a hundred tracks listened to (all genres) and have barely scratched the surface.

It's gonna be a long month or two.

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Delta Sign
KVRist
446 posts since 22 Jun, 2018

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:47 pm


andymcbain
KVRist
179 posts since 10 Jan, 2017

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:36 am

Reefius wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:19 am
I never saw the point of layering kicks. All you need is a good TR-909 kick sample (or something like D16 Drumazon) and some EQ, compression and saturation to make it sound 'fat'.
It depends on the sound you're after... if you want to sound like contemporary 138bpm euphoric trance stuff, a 909 kick won't really suffice. A lot of layering goes into those Vengeance Sound style trance kicks. Or of course you could buy the Vengeance packs and let someone else do the hard work for you ;)

recursive one
KVRAF
3686 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:01 am

Delta Sign wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:47 pm
It has begun :hihi:
Nice melody :tu: Sounds like a good start.
I hate incomplete sentences because they ...

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:18 am

andymcbain wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:36 am
Reefius wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:19 am
I never saw the point of layering kicks. All you need is a good TR-909 kick sample (or something like D16 Drumazon) and some EQ, compression and saturation to make it sound 'fat'.
It depends on the sound you're after... if you want to sound like contemporary 138bpm euphoric trance stuff, a 909 kick won't really suffice. A lot of layering goes into those Vengeance Sound style trance kicks. Or of course you could buy the Vengeance packs and let someone else do the hard work for you ;)
Well I just layered a kick (first time I ever did this) that I think sounds great. In fact, I can't believe I actually made this. Yes, it was a lot of work, not to mention a lot of videos to watch. But it was worth it.

I don't think I could ever go back to a non layered kick for any dance track I do ever again. I am spoiled now.

garryknight
KVRian
1099 posts since 6 Jan, 2015 from London, England

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:59 am

wagtunes wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:04 pm
Transient shaper on the kick attack. Yes, no?
How about "Yes in the drop, to make it hit harder and stand out more"?

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:03 pm

garryknight wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:59 am
wagtunes wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:04 pm
Transient shaper on the kick attack. Yes, no?
How about "Yes in the drop, to make it hit harder and stand out more"?
Sounds good to me. I'll tell yuh, I am having a blast preparing for this. The stuff I'm learning that I would have never even thought of doing is just mind blowing. Who even thinks of some of this stuff? Because it's certainly not intuitive.

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Delta Sign
KVRist
446 posts since 22 Jun, 2018

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:14 pm

I don't think any of it really is all that unintuitive at all. I'd even say the simplicity is part of the beauty of this kind of music.

However, does anyone know when "sidechaining" was first used in music like it's often used in "EDM" tracks today? Would be kind of interesting to know.

This is the earliest example I can think of from the top of my head, but it probably has been done before (Especially listen to the cymbal when the drums hit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5-qRum7lgU

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:08 pm

Delta Sign wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:14 pm
I don't think any of it really is all that unintuitive at all. I'd even say the simplicity is part of the beauty of this kind of music.

However, does anyone know when "sidechaining" was first used in music like it's often used in "EDM" tracks today? Would be kind of interesting to know.

This is the earliest example I can think of from the top of my head, but it probably has been done before (Especially listen to the cymbal when the drums hit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5-qRum7lgU
Well, it's certainly unintuitive if...

1. You've never heard it done before.

2. You don't know what process the person used to make the sound(s) in question.

Hindsight is always 20-20 and it's easy for people now to say "Oh I would have thought of that" but growing up listening to music that is about as far removed from Trance as you can get, no, I would have never thought of pumping a pad using a kick and sidechain or running a highpass filter over a section until the sound literally disappears or doing a sped up kick or snare roll (and on and on and on)

Okay, so like maybe I'm just an idiot and have no imagination, but no, none of this stuff is intuitive if you've never been exposed to it. That's why the true pioneers are the ones who actually thought of this stuff and did it first.

Me actually think of something that has NEVER been done before? No way in hell. Not in a million years. I just don't have that kind of an imagination. Never did, never will. I take already established things and mix and match to make somewhat of my own sound, which is probably what I'm going to end up doing with this project. But I have NEVER invented anything that somebody came back to me and said "Wow, how the hell did you think of that?"

So no, nothing is intuitive if your frame of reference is so foreign to what it is you're trying to do. You need to go listen to the thing you want to do (like I'm doing now) and THEN maybe you can get some ideas in the process. But trust me, it's not going to be something that nobody has ever heard before, unless you're one of those very rare special kind of musicians.

I'm content borrowing from what's around me and do the best that I can with it.

andymcbain
KVRist
179 posts since 10 Jan, 2017

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:45 am

wagtunes wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:18 am

Well I just layered a kick (first time I ever did this) that I think sounds great. In fact, I can't believe I actually made this. Yes, it was a lot of work, not to mention a lot of videos to watch. But it was worth it.

I don't think I could ever go back to a non layered kick for any dance track I do ever again. I am spoiled now.
Cool nice work! Making your own sounds is satisfying indeed. Don't feel you have to do it each and every time though. This stuff is very genre and taste specific. A simple sinewave kick from Bazzism or Kick 2 might sit perfectly well in a psytrance or minimal track for example, and may actually be more effective than something more tonally complex.

On the other hand if you want your kick to absolutely dominate the mix, as in the "138" trance style, or Hardstyle - you essentially need a "full range" kick which will have subs, "punch" in the 100-200hz region, "slap" in the upper mids and even some extreme top end. This Bryan Kearney track is a good example -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md51fORJub4

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13421 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:01 am

andymcbain wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:45 am
wagtunes wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:18 am

Well I just layered a kick (first time I ever did this) that I think sounds great. In fact, I can't believe I actually made this. Yes, it was a lot of work, not to mention a lot of videos to watch. But it was worth it.

I don't think I could ever go back to a non layered kick for any dance track I do ever again. I am spoiled now.
Cool nice work! Making your own sounds is satisfying indeed. Don't feel you have to do it each and every time though. This stuff is very genre and taste specific. A simple sinewave kick from Bazzism or Kick 2 might sit perfectly well in a psytrance or minimal track for example, and may actually be more effective than something more tonally complex.

On the other hand if you want your kick to absolutely dominate the mix, as in the "138" trance style, or Hardstyle - you essentially need a "full range" kick which will have subs, "punch" in the 100-200hz region, "slap" in the upper mids and even some extreme top end. This Bryan Kearney track is a good example -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md51fORJub4
Great kick. Great track. And I get what you're saying. I think for certain kinds of music that kick would be totally over the top and would not fit at all and would, in fact, ruin the whole ambiance of the track.

Having said that, I find most kicks that come in things like Battery 4 to be just so lifeless. I can't explain it. They just sound dull. Not all. Some sound great. But many do absolutely nothing for me on their own. But perhaps combining with other kicks could turn them into something great.

Right now it's all trial and error for me and I'm having a blast doing it. I hope I never reach the day when this becomes boring for me and it's just another day at the office.

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