Mix Challenge - Gossip and Discussion

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12339 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:35 pm

kbaccki wrote:I read the following rule as meaning "you can only use the bits provided by the source, you can't add audio data outside of the source project"… in other words, you can't record yourself playing a new guitar part, use BFD to replace existing audio, etc. But mangling what's there within reason is acceptable.
Actually, I think drum replacement is OK since this is what the biggest name mix engineers do (although doing so is both less fun AND less educational). The biggest name tracking engineers will typically bring in players to actually re-track parts but the mix engineers don't do that, so this would be out of the bounds of this competition. I request that you re-submit your mix without the added parts.

KVRAF
42538 posts since 21 Dec, 2005

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:36 pm

Uncle E wrote:
hibidy wrote:It's a general comment. I heard uncle e's, but there is just too much ground to cover so I don't know where all the mixes are.
We'll assemble them all into the first post when the voting begins. Any comments on my mix? It was weird for me to mix in LCR, a lot of the mixes I reference are LCR but they all have a lot more parts going on.
LCR?

I'll reserve any and all comments until I've posted mine.

KVRAF
2475 posts since 13 Mar, 2004

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:42 pm

Thanks for the explainations about the snare click thing.

I'll see what I do with it then.

KVRAF
7086 posts since 17 Feb, 2005

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:45 pm

UncleE I thought your mix sounded pretty good, a little low in gain on the right channel. I think maybe too much 1176 squash over the entire track, not enough plomp in the transients.

KVRAF
2450 posts since 12 Sep, 2004

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:25 pm

Uncle E wrote:I request that you re-submit your mix without the added parts.
Sure.

RE: snare click… the kick also had a click in it, though less noticeable unless you really amp it up. Soundforge click remover worked great on both source files. +1 for SonyCreativeSoftware.com!
You need to limit that rez, bro.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12339 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:34 pm

hibidy wrote:LCR?
Left-Center-Right, nothing in the middle. I did cheat a little, first by copying the guitar to another track, panned hard on the other side (although it's pretty low and doesn't move it in the field too much), and second by leaving Nine of Kings' panning on the pre-mixed vocals.

KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:45 pm

On the metering thing again:
Uncle E wrote:It's a non-issue due to the nature of this music's arrangement. A future challenge may involve music that is more dense, then I imagine this may come up again.
The basic principals would remain the same for mixing a track. If you create a whole album montage, we have to go a different approach. And yes, using a loudness meter like the EBU R-128 one is a tad more suitable for a consistent program stream. Especially if the album varies in terms of genre.

But this is an absolute non-issue for this competition/challenge. May it be a mix or a mastering one.
Most of the time, a VU and a digital meter is more than enough.

do_androids_dream wrote:couldn't be simpler :tu:
Appreciate the positive vibe and I'm happy that you could still learn something new. Even if you seem to do this for quite a while now as well.




On to the question about "mixing" and "rearranging":
Uncle E wrote:
kbaccki wrote:I read the following rule as meaning "you can only use the bits provided by the source, you can't add audio data outside of the source project"… in other words, you can't record yourself playing a new guitar part, use BFD to replace existing audio, etc. But mangling what's there within reason is acceptable.
Actually, I think drum replacement is OK since this is what the biggest name mix engineers do (although doing so is both less fun AND less educational). The biggest name tracking engineers will typically bring in players to actually re-track parts but the mix engineers don't do that, so this would be out of the bounds of this competition. I request that you re-submit your mix without the added parts.
Personally I think drum replacement is an absolute last resort if a track doesn't work. The main issue I have with such tools is, that it let's productions sound like everything else and anyone else. I do have a drum replacement tool (Trigger 2!), but I barely ever used it. Not my cup of tea.

With the provided material, we can do so much with it. And I said to myself "do not listen to the other tracks, do not copy", but I did take a listen to the last three entries anyway... And these are all only scratching the surface!

So far we have a couple of interesting ideas. Actually, the idea by kbaccki is very interesting. But it would indeed count as "rearranging / remixing". The main focus of this challenge is however "mix with what you have at your disposal".


Now in terms of mangling, I did indeed mean: a different distortion on the bass, pitch correction of the vocals (some people did that), cutting up passages and pan them to your needs (yes, this is what I was hinting at - and most participants did automatically already). Using a gate to fix the clicks in the snare would in theory also count as "mangling" - since it would change the original sound.

Our focus with this challenge, at least in my opinion, should be "what can be done with the tracks we have at our disposal?" "How can we improve the sound without messing with the arrangement"? "What could be the end of the line within a set time limit?!".

Though I do like a "remix competition" from time to time if it's really just "basic stuff" and not like "change a rock tune into a dance tune". But this could be for a completely different challenge (at the OCRemix and VGMix Community, we called that "PRC" - short for "People's Remix Competition", and it was a ton of fun and darn interesting).

Do you know see why we NEED a separate section for KVR competition?
It can start with a "one synth challenge" and a "song writing competition", then we could move this to "people's remix competition" and finally to both "mix and mastering competition". One musician could start a chain, and the end result could be something absolutely wonderful. Basically open doors for collaborative efforts and possible songwriting/mix/mastering deals.


People - post in here, bring that to the attention of the admins:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=413299


But back on topic:
I'd also say... let's cut kbaccki some slack... he should indeed maybe resubmit with focus on the existing material. If Nine of Kings was listening along so far, he can still change the arrangement later. And if he found a mix that he was happy with, and wants to ask the engineer for help... there - instant deal.

First Mix Challenge, no points withdrawn.
No lashes, no pink shirt. It's cool.

But Next time -> Disqualification.




TO THOSE THAT ARE CONFUSED IN TERMS OF THE CURRENT RULES:
I'd love to see a slightly altered definition of the rule point so that everyone can understand it. If there is one volunteer to alter that, I don't need to invest any more time than I already put into it.

Thanks in advance.
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12339 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:00 pm

camsr wrote:I think maybe too much 1176 squash over the entire track, not enough plomp in the transients.
Everything's really squashed! I was going for a Beach Boys meets MGMT vibe, I wanted everything to be as smooth as the vocals. I'm curious to see how people respond to that.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12339 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:03 pm

kbaccki wrote:If you guys want to disqualify my entry I won't be butt hurt…
Certainly not disqualified! :)

KVRAF
42538 posts since 21 Dec, 2005

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:36 pm

Uncle E wrote:
hibidy wrote:LCR?
Left-Center-Right, nothing in the middle. I did cheat a little, first by copying the guitar to another track, panned hard on the other side (although it's pretty low and doesn't move it in the field too much), and second by leaving Nine of Kings' panning on the pre-mixed vocals.
To what end? Is that a rule or something? I'm just not following.

In fact, I'm having a really tough time with this thread :hihi: I want to participate, but I feel like 30 books have been cut and pasted together :ud:

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12339 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:59 pm

hibidy wrote:To what end? Is that a rule or something? I'm just not following.
Just try it! A lot of old Motown and Beatles records had hard LCR panning. There are consoles that only had LCR switches and no gradual panning knobs.

No Doubt's Hella Good is one of my favorite mixes and it's mostly LCR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtTj4cramPM&feature=kp

KVRAF
4201 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:50 pm

Ludite!
ImageImageImageImage

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12339 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:02 pm

:D

It's actually not something I usually do, I only did it for this challenge to see how people respond. It's honestly not the best choice for this material but I'm pretty happy with my mix, anyway.

KVRAF
4201 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:08 pm

Yeah, actually I would not have guessed.
There was one bit I noticed was pretty hard right, (or left if my earbuds were in wrong :hihi:), but it sounded great to me.
ImageImageImageImage

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12339 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:13 pm

highkoo wrote:Yeah, actually I would not have guessed.
There was one bit I noticed was pretty hard right, (or left if my earbuds were in wrong :hihi:), but it sounded great to me.
Thank you! :)

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