KVR MIX CHALLENGE - MC09 April 2015 - CONCLUDED, Results are in

[Compyfox]

At this point, I threw three mails, and several tweets from both my private and the official KVR MC account. We can't do much more at this point (which is a pity, I agree with you on that).

I only got an information that Hotmail.uk/Outlook seems to act up. Another KVRian I know that is also in the UK and is using Hotmail as well, seems to have similar issues (no response in 2 weeks either, yet I see them tweet daily). Which is indeed a bit annoying.


I'll put this up for internal debate.
But rest assured, I am very, very sorry about the outcome and future Mix Challenges will (sadly) be even more strict on the that behalf.

[ThePresent]

I got a response once, via Soundcloud message but it took some time

[Compyfox]

An update:
I sent another(!) mail with the request to please get in touch with us. Should there be anyone among us, that is in closer touch with Paul Stevenson, please remind him of this challenge.

Should we not get an answer by Wednesday 17-06-2015, we'll move on to judging the tracks ourselves, but won't be doing a mix round 2.



Again - sorry for the inconvenience.

[Fender19]

Compyfox,

I'm sorry but I do not believe the problem here has anything to do with Hotmail or any other communications being down. Paul could have found a way to get ahold of you if he wanted to. Seems instead he is avoiding or has better things to do.

But, maybe that's OK. I don't necessarily think that the author is the best person to be judging a mix contest - they are too close to the source. Often times the winning mix judged by the author ends up sounding very close to the author's original mix.

So, maybe this will bring a new twist to this contest. Perhaps someone in the industry - a producer or established mix engineer - can judge our entries from a truly objective view.

Looking forward to however this turns out.

Fender19

[Compyfox]

I am a person that tries to give the benefit of doubt.


But the feedback is welcome.
We'll see how this one will turn out.

[mwaudioprod]

An update:
Should we not get an answer by Wednesday 17-06-2015, we'll move on to judging the tracks ourselves, but won't be doing a mix round 2.

Has he answered, in the meantime? If not, we should continue without him. We should then vote who has made the best mix. Like in the beginning of KVR-MC.

[Compyfox]

I sent another mail and another tweet since I still hope that the mail only got lost in translation.

We're also already heavily discussing this internally. Please give us this weekend to sort things out (keep in mind, MC11 runs in parallel, and we're in preparation for MC12) and then we can (really) go from here.

[Compyfox]

An update:
After several mails and various tweets with the request to get in touch with us, but only getting radio silence. I think we'll go the following route.


We got a mail weeks ago (out of pure chance as well) with two names in the pool, but sadly no further specification of what needs to be fixed/improved. But at least we got a certain order already. We will build upon that. So what he do the next days (hopefully as soon as it's possible for us) is listen to all tracks, and then declare spot no 3.

There will sadly be no second mix round. And at this point, it will be kind of pointless. Let's just close it out and move on.



We will(!) enforce a new rule for the clients however. And this one will be along the lines of:

If the song provider is not approachable within a reasonable time frame then the Mix Challenge staff will take the decision.

The current time frame for this rule to kick in will be 14 days post mix round 1. If we don't hear back by then, the main staff take charge. It's still a rule to be fine-tuned, but I'm not only announcing it now, we (as team) will also put this into action with MC11(!).



Sorry about the inconvenience so far. But definitely thanks for your time.

And as you've probably read via our Twitter Account... we need more content to mix starting with MC13 (August). So please, if you have anything to offer, get in touch with us.

[mwaudioprod]

An update:
After several mails and various tweets with the request to get in touch with us, but only getting radio silence. I think we'll go the following route.


We got a mail weeks ago (out of pure chance as well) with two names in the pool, but sadly no further specification of what needs to be fixed/improved. But at least we got a certain order already. We will build upon that. So what he do the next days (hopefully as soon as it's possible for us) is listen to all tracks, and then declare spot no 3.

You have made a very generous decision. Maybe he contacts you soon. I as a participant wait furthermore with pleasure. Now we have to wait again and drink a few cups of tea. Cheers

[mwaudioprod]

Compyfox, since your last post further 14 days have passed. Has he contacted you in the meanwhile? If not, how long do you want to wait for his decision? I think he will not contact you at all, he could have made this long time ago.

[Compyfox]

We got a mail weeks ago (out of pure chance as well) with two names in the pool, but sadly no further specification of what needs to be fixed/improved. But at least we got a certain order already. We will build upon that. So what he do the next days (hopefully as soon as it's possible for us) is listen to all tracks, and then declare spot no 3.

There will sadly be no second mix round. And at this point, it will be kind of pointless. Let's just close it out and move on.

I have to apologize for the day yet again. I am still on it, but I have to cramp it into my already busy schedule.

Currently Satya(tunes) and I are running the challenges alone, Uncle E has a lot to do with his shop. So we are all(!) busy with work in parallel. If you know me, I'm usually very active on KVR Audio, but I had to reduce that to a bare minimum as well.



I'll get to it ASAP.

[Fender19]

Wow - I find this whole situation very strange. It seems everyone has dropped the ball on this including the KVR staff who told us over two weeks ago that it was being resolved - followed by two more weeks of silence and no result.

What is really going on here? Is there a legal issue or something? Weird.

This is a REALLY good song and I was looking forward to seeing it come to life commercially (I was going to ask Paul if I could submit the winning mix to my local alternative radio station). What a shame it has turned out like this.

We got a mail weeks ago (out of pure chance as well) with two names in the pool, but sadly no further specification of what needs to be fixed/improved. But at least we got a certain order already.

Then why did you say you hadn't heard from him? Why not announce those two winners along with whatever comments Paul had and call it done?

[Compyfox]

Why there is radio silence form Paul Stevenson?
We don't know.


Why there is radio silence from the staff?
Simple:
- Satya is overloaded with work
- Eric is overloaded with work (and now the flood of new gear coming with Summer NAMM)
- I am overloaded with work (day job, freelance), but I still try to handle all recent MC's in parallel, and hunt down for new content so that the MC isn't over with MC13(!). (in all honesty, have you seen me post a lot recently on both Twitter and/or KVR?)

Basically, we're currently one-man-armies and sometimes trade places.
But there is nothing legal or "strange" going on here.

I ask for patience - this will get sorted eventually!
But we can only do so much in our limited sparetime outside of work and family.



If you want to help us, then please do so by offering new material to mix(!). This would reduce a lot of stress on our end already.

[Compyfox]

A short update:
It's been really busy on our end. But we will release the results for the top three by end of this week (CW30). Again, sorry for the inconvenience.

As mentioned earlier, there will sadly be no second mix round.

[Compyfox]

I have to apologize for the long waiting time. But it a bit to further discuss internally how we would further perform with the situation, and also finding some time to listen to each provided mix.

Gentlemen - I present to you the evaluation and announcement of the two to three spots of the MC09. I am terribly sorry that we can't continue this challenge any further, as this really screamed for another mix round. But we (the staff) are really busy.



Please keep in mind, I am not(!) the client. I can never fully comment on the ideas behind this production, or how it should ideally sound. I can only do mere suggestions.

Now that this is out of the way...
Upfront - all of you had great ideas for this song.

I really, really liked certain ideas with the "cry outs" (delays) in certain parts of the song, which can indeed add to the desolated and devastated feeling of the song. But it for those that did, it sadly didn't work out that well IMO. Yes, this is a song about an apocalypse. Yes, it is sung by somebody that is "lost" and alone. But sometimes the emphasis was just too strong, or on the wrong words rater than specific passages. The main theme was "sadness", which then turned into anger - not... how should i call it... "prayers".

At least that is my interpretation based on the given words by the client, the production and initial mix. I imagined that the singer started in an empty hall or something, and then began to slowly walk outside, only to scream at the desolated world, with mushroom clouds still in the background. Then again, I also listened to the song for a couple of hours with selected cut away instruments, which added to the emotional effect of this song. During that time, I also wanted to add a load of delay on certain phrases (to fill up empty spaces). So I definitely do understand your concept, people.



But I also saw a couple of things that nearly all of you had problems with while mixing (to be honest, I did as well while I was looking at the files).

For example: the synth bass and orchestra - finding a right balance is not easy. But if you treat it like a "synth orchestra" (not individual tracks) and keep in mind that there is no bass otherwise present (at least not in this part of the song), then it should make more sense.

Another issue I've heard with a lot of mixes were the Ebow Guitar. One of you actually added a slight delay (or the right amount of reverb), maybe also a slight additional vocal swell - and it worked great. Yes, not your usual guitar. But still a guitar, so changing it into an accordion run through a broken speaker is not really the way to go IMO.

Also really problematic in the end was the synth arpeggio, combined with the guitars, the drums, the vocals... This resulted for pretty much all of the participants in a so called "sound porridge" (Klangbrei in German). I struggled with this myself during initial testing of the production, and actually ended up using heavy EQ cuts, distortion and even automation to let all instruments/tracks cut through the mix.

And lastly... the drums... I do understand that you have an own idea of a certain sound. This is more than great - wanted even. "Music" is subjective. But in this case, the drums were already great to work with and only needed slight enhancements. Drums can be the maker or breaker of a song, just like a bass. It's not like you got a 60ies kit and it should have sounded like a end 90ies kit in the end.



Also a warning to those using mastering tools or web spaces (a word on Dithering):

The source material was provided in 44/24.

One of you upscaled the production to 48kHz (which is fine) but otherwise left the bitrate at 24bit. Three of you however, used dithering and provided a 16bit track - and this is an absolute no-go if a mastering engineer has to continue working on the material (Jim Kennedy, mwaudioproduction, Stonecutter). Furthermore, some of you might also have bitrate issues with your host, as not 24bit were fully registered in Wavelab's analysis, but 23 bit (geroyannis, Photonic, VasDim, and Stonecutter had 15bit). This could be due to a not healthy worklevel or the mix engine having issues. Please check your hosts and file storage services, and stop using dithering.

Additional to that, mwaudioprod's WAV file was broken, I could only access the MP3 file. If that was dithered down to 16bit by SoundCloud or something, please ignore my comment above.

But rule of thumb should always be:
If it's provided in x bitrate, use the same bit rate or higher





But on to the general "feedback" (in a very cut-short way) before I announce the two(!) people that were initially selected by the client, and the third place selected by the KVR MC Staff:


3ee
Track has no pre-roll to work with (starts at bar 1), synth bass is a bit too intense, drums too over-processed, snare sounds like it was triggered (but this is due to over-processing), vocals could get a reduced saturation effect


Davias
Love the slight emphasis on certain words with delay (it's not in your face), but there seems to be a chorus on the vocals that is giving a strange listening experience on headphones, drums could use a bit more work (more reverb, different EQ maybe), synth bass is barely noticeable – end is a "sound porridge"


Fender19
Nice delay on the vocals, volume balance to other instruments is great. Don't like the „roomy“ voice effect (what is on there?! shifts the vocals), interesting effect on ebow guitar, drums don't fit with the rest of the song (too quiet, EQ could be redone), end part is a "sound porridge", end cuts off too abruptly (guitars were cut away)


geroyannis
Piano is too lofi, vocal reverb adds a „boxed room effect“, drums maybe too dry, choir/doubles down out, end is "sound porridge"


gruh
Vocal/Piano Ballance is great – but vocals are a bit dry, drums are too overprocessed, drown out (and cut out due to heavy compression?!) in later part, guitars barely noticeable, vocals too dry in last part


Jim Kennedy
Vocals a bit cut too high in piano part (and also for rest of the song), toms are working great for the production, but could use more reverb - however once the full drum set kicks in, it's drowning out the guitars, drums sound lofi in this part


Kolyev
Vocals may be too dry in general, but nice emphasis on certain words with reverb, Ebow a bit too quiet, solo toms sound good, choir parts could be a tad louder, nice delay effect in the bridge - however too in your face, then the guitars have some weird phasing that sounds like a „booming“ effect (sounds are adding up, giving a low frequency rumble that shouldn't happen)? In this case, drums too over processed, interferes with the guitars


kurviak
Piano effect too strong, destroys the whole mood of the song – sounds as if there is heaviy sidechaining going on (mastering compressor is pumping?), tires your ears instantly – vocals have a strong compression, sounds okay otherwise, toms and ebow aren't even there (too thin!), drums need a lot of work – kick sounds completely different, snare too dry, overhead barely noticeable


mixedmind
The track was rendered a bit low in volume (-34dB RMS), please take note of that in the future - due to this, a loudness normalization / mastering introduces a lot of noise. Vocals in first part has a slight "boxed room" effect, EQ maybe cut a bit too high. Though generally, the mix lacks low end frequencies (easy to address during mastering). Chorus vanishes slightly in drums and piano. Toms are a bit "thin" and maybe too loud. Interesting delay effect with the phrase towards the "ending part", but feels out of place (too forced). Drums (snare especially) maybe a bit too strong processed - kit sounds "thin" this way (different EQ maybe). Mix in last part has a slight "sound porridge" feel, but the last 10s work really great.


mwaudioprod
Piano sounds a bit lofi, vocal maybe cut a bit too high (sound a tad too mid heavy as well), ebow a bit thin, good drum mix, but snare could use more reverb, guitars drown out a bit, synth bass is barely noticeable – where are the doubled voices? Not enough movement in the stereo field IMO


Photonic
No Preroll to work with (starts at bar 1), vocals sound a bit „boomy“, room reverb doesn't work for the vocals, delay effect catches you you off guard, but doesn't work for this song – emphasizes the wrong passages, choir has too much „room“, end part could use some work („sound porrige“)


Stonecutter
Balance between piano and vocals is okay, vocals could be a bit louder (a couple of dBs). Vocals have a strong „pumping effect“ due to too strong reacting compressor, „cathedral“ reverb is an interesting idea, but is too much in the first part of the song – over the course of the track it's okay, but could see some variation, orchestra barely noticeable, drums too dry, drown out a bit in the end/drums definitely need a different mix, vocals are too harsh in the end as well, as if there was a transient designer used and the ess-sounds boosted


The Present
Piano and Vocals sound dull and „boxy“, in some instances even „flanging“ (as if there was a fake double track used), also interesting idea on the delay but doesn't work for this song, good balance of choir and vocals, drum set has a good mix – but the general mix is a bit dull – and it sounds as if there was a compressor on the master bus (which is too strong set up)


VasDim
Lofi piano, effect sounds like honky tonk (original Piano is a Steinway D!), vocals have that „room“ effect (maybe try a different reverb), vocals could use less mids (different EQ), were the vocals panned off center? (or is the reverb adding that effect), synth bass is a bit quiet. Ebow turned into a synth accordion?, vocals glitch once choir kicks in? (did I imagine things?), kick could use some work, snare maybe a different and louder reverb – choir in final part is too loud. General „sound porridge“, ending changed with different pitched vocals?


Westcoast2
Panning at the beginning off? Vocals too dry and muddy, choir too quiet – mix needs general more (or new) work as the balance of the instruments is sometimes completely off – for example: where are the guitars, where is the emphasis on certain parts?




But what is the verdict?!

The "client" sent me the following words and two names:

right, there are 2 clear choices for me
first there is a mix by Davias which is very good but needs a tiny bit of work on the loud bit specifically the drums

then there is;
a mix by 3ee which is very good but I don't like the over saturation on my voice in the quiet bit.

those are the 2 which I consider to be the most innovative mixes - they are obviously trying to find their own sound rather than trying to sound like other people and that is what I think should be rewarded.

The client's selection is therefore, however without any definite position:
- Davias
- 3ee


Since the "client" has the final word (and we do respect that), we have to add another winner. And after listening to all songs, we (the KVR MC Staff) selected the following three people out of the remaining participants in order of appearance.

- Stonecutter
- VasDim
- mwaudioprod

If we'd go into a second mix round, those would be the 5 people fighting for the winners podium.
But we sadly don't, due to time constraints (also, this has really gone on long enough).



The winners podium would therefore be, with respect to the KVR MC09 client Paul Stevenson:
1) Davias
2) 3ee
3) Stonecutter



Congratulations.
That concludes KVR MC09.




EDIT 30-07-2015:
- added review for mixedmind's entry