KVR Audio

lwj · Post by **lwj** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:19 pm

Yeah, depending on where the meat of your track is they really can.
Apart from what's been mentioned before you could try to add subtle saturation before you filter. That way you're preserving some of the bass (harmonics) giving a slightly thicker sound.

timyork · Post by **timyork** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:12 am

timyork · Post by **timyork** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:13 am

Jafo wrote:There's also the Pultec trick of using a resonant HP filter; this adds some weight above the cutoff, so it feels like less is taken off. Highly (sorry!) recommended.

Here's how to do the resonant HP filter trick - definitely worth trying..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vl_KguiCEw

timyork · Post by **timyork** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:15 am

And here's Steven Slate's take on the same technique:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkI2aE ... -162858065

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:36 am

+1 for resonant high pass filters.

But in general I agree they can suck the life out of your mix if you're not careful (don't just automatically do the "high pass every channel except bass and kick" method, that is a bit of a youtube myth).

One thing I've realised is that there is such a thing as "air" in the low end. Like you might think it's totally safe to cut a snare under the fundamental frequency, thinking it's just rumble/mud/waste of headroom etc... but close your eyes, A/B the high pass and FEEL what that 20-80hz is doing for the snare (weight, power, anchoring) in conjunction with the rest of the drums (kick).

Starting to prefer shelving or end up removing lots of high passes and just think "i'll put a safety one at 10hz on the master bus to fix that DC offset and be done with it" or generally only highpassing buses rather than individuals.

Oh and strictly minimum phase on high pass filters here.

s28 · Post by **s28** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:31 am

A few thoughts...

Firstly everything eaffects everything so something sounding cold and sterile could be a number of things. I'm sure you know this but it's worth pointing out so that you aren't trying to fix a problem with low end that isn't there.

You say High pass filtering but this can be many things, a 6db gentle filter is so different to a 96db hpf. Different filter types will effect the sound differently as well. I personally only use gentle slopes, more than usual it's 6db, sometimes 12db but rarely, I find it sounds much more natural.

Also I usually use a low shelf instead of a hpf for this very reason. If things sound cold without the low end your perhaps taking too much out. It's just about striking a balance. I find gentle slopes and or gentle shelves to be the best way to mix those lower elements.

You might have too much lows though and way to much upper midrange or high end making the mix sound cold or harsh, or maybe a lack of low mids. Everything affects everything so be conscious of the mix as a whole and not just the low end. Ofc this is what works for me so figure your own methods out, but I think the first port of call should be trying out gentle shelves and slopes and see if that helps.

nix808 · Post by **nix808** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:28 am

I have dealt with DC wonk before.
IMO- render it out and have a look in an audio editor.
If there is DC, you need to HPF as steep as u can at 20hz,
or run to driven tape.
If there is not, shelf or hp to ur ear's content.

ie. if there is not any DC- u r not doing anything wrong from an engineering standpoint--
{employ hard hat}

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:49 pm

I set up a clipper to catch some peaky snares. Just noticed a Minimum Phase 12db/oct HPF at 10hz in Pro-Q before the clipper caused the clipper to engage on the kick/bass transient as well, not just the snare. Removing the high pass stopped the kick/bass clipping. I mean, you always hear that pass filters increase peaks - I don't really get the science behind it - but this is the first real-world experience I've had where I can definitely confirm it happening.

Just checking this out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J51r44VzNKo

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:41 am

3ee wrote:HP may not be needed all the time... try low shelving band instead.

One important aspect when working with filters is phase distortion..it can easily make a sound weak when played against another

Try bringing 'fullness' back with lower level pitch shifted doubles and sub sinewaves

Yeah, shelfs or a more gradual slope, like 6 or 12dB per octave. Even moving the cutoff point a bit lower where it needs to be will help as well.

If all you have is junk frequencies in the low-end, as in, nothing musical related, you are still best off, in most cases using that HP or low shelf to tame it or get rid of it. If you feel you're wanting to create more of a solid low end, however, in many instances, you are better off "synthesising" it rather than allowing the junk frequencies to come through.

You can do this a number of ways, that most folks here should know. But typically you could gate a sub frequency sine wave if its a kick, copy the bass part if its midi, draping that down an octave and playing it through a sine patch. Then there plugins like the Brainworx bx_subsynth, Waves LowAir, MaxxBass, RenBass, or SubBass if you have Logic. Moderate use of something like this would allow you to fill in those lower frequencies you feel are missing from your mix.

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:16 pm

Roll-off before compression, and then boost/excite your low-end back again after compression. You'll find a lot of clarity is retained this way, with added punch to boot. It's critical for clean bass management in bass music.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Fri May 11, 2018 10:01 pm

Transparently high passing individual tracks is one of the most common ways of reducing the 'mud' in the overall mix. By "transparently" I mean adjusting the cutoff slowly upward until you can hear it.

It might seem strange to go to the trouble of filtering out what you can't hear, but there is often nearly inaudible low frequency content in individual tracks that cumulatively adds up to what I called 'mud, which really just means useless low frequency energy that interferes with proper bass response.

Most modern music has a lot of low frequency energy: drums, bass, rhythm guitar and so on, which are all fighting for space in a 2 channel mix. Getting rid of all of that nearly inaudible and unwanted low end energy clears out space for the lows that you actually DO want to hear.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Fri May 11, 2018 10:15 pm

I should note that the high pass technique described above is completely distinct from creative uses of resonant filtering to alter the sonic profile of a mix or an individual track. It is really using a filter more as a utility than as a creative tool.

Both techniques have their uses, and are equally valid in modern music production.

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Tue May 15, 2018 6:19 pm

Everglide wrote:HP filters sucks the life out of my music...

I'm curious how others handle this. HP the low end makes my music sound cold and sterile but it creates space in the mix. I'm thinking the next step is to preserve more low end to bring back it back to life with automation.

Not all sounds need high pass filtering. I would recommend making sure that either your bass or your kick (depending on the composition) extends down into the lowest octave. It doesn't need a ton of energy there but it will still come through on bigger speakers and keep things full. Also on sources that don't need energy in the bass region, use less steep filters (maximum of -6DB / octave) and some gentle shelves to clean out the unneeded low frequency energy. Steep cutoffs stand out and sound resonant in lots of situations. Making sure that the low end of reverb and delay sends is tamed too as it can muddy things up quick.

HP sucks the life...