Need Upper Frequencies Help Desperately

[BertKoor]

Okay, then let's talk about what the difference is between having a tambourine at 3 db as opposed to 4 db.

The correction you did to the tambourine was not a 1dB difference, but more likely something like 10dB.

[Mushy Mushy]

I really cant fathom how this conversation is 6 pages long. As the artist it is completely your discretion how loud the tambourines are.

Its a Wagtunes thread ... could go on for weeks yet.

LOL. Can you imagine Rembrandt asking the local villagers how much green he should use.

[donkey tugger]

Musically its irrelevant (tambourines aren't likely to be a critical element in a track).

Manchestoh, our kid.

[wagtunes]

Whenever I think about "conventions of appropriate levels for instruments in a mix," and the willingness to break them, I always think of My Bloody Valentine...

Again, we are talking about different things.

Okay, then let's talk about what the difference is between having a tambourine at 3 db as opposed to 4 db.

Its 1db quieter ...if its too loud or too soft is up to the mixing engineer. Musically its irrelevant (tambourines aren't likely to be a critical element in a track).

Yeah, but WHY does the mixing engineer make those decisions? What is the guideline? Where is it written "Tambourine shall not be louder than..." and pick your number.

A lot of this stuff just seems to arbitrary to me.

[wagtunes]

Okay, then let's talk about what the difference is between having a tambourine at 3 db as opposed to 4 db.

The correction you did to the tambourine was not a 1dB difference, but more likely something like 10dB.

In this case, maybe. But that's not even the point. I can't tell you how many times I've been told stuff like this, which absolutely drives me crazy.

"The snare should have a transient shaper on it to make it crack more."

Why does it have to crack more? Why can't it just be the way it is?

Or...

"The bass should have an EQ bump of about 1 db around the 200k mark."

Why? Why can't it just be the way it is?

Or...

"The lead guitar should be panned a little more left."

Why? Why can't it just be where it is?

I have had TONS of my stuff literally torn to shreds by little things like this. Sometimes as many as 10 or 15 of these minuscule suggestions. How does any of this ultimately make the song any better or worse?

This is the kind of stuff that I don't understand and it drives me crazy. It's like people just want to find something to pick apart so they can show how smart they are.

[Mushy Mushy]

What else have you been told on the internet that you believe?

[wagtunes]

What else have you been told on the internet that you believe?

Well that's kind of my point? What makes what I do wrong and what everybody else do right?

[Mushy Mushy]

What else have you been told on the internet that you believe?

Well that's kind of my point? What makes what I do wrong and what everybody else do right?

This brings me to my earlier point, nothing. You are the artist so you decide.
If you want the open hats piercing and deafening and the lead guitar barely audible that's your right as the composer.

[BertKoor]

Why, or why not? There's a difference between things you do or don't because of you're not even aware it makes it better (or different) and conscious / artistic choices you make. The latter cannot be wrong because these are about taste (and sometimes genre conventions)

[wagtunes]

Why, or why not? There's a difference between things you do or don't because of you're not even aware it makes it better (or different) and conscious / artistic choices you make. The latter cannot be wrong because these are about taste (and sometimes genre conventions)

Ah yes, genre conventions. Boy, if we stuck to those back in the 50s we'd still be stuck in the 50s.

Sorry, but when somebody says my snare needs "more snap" when I can hear it perfectly fine even with MY ears, they're just being nit picky.

[Googly Smythe]

I think parts that are "too loud" are "too loud" because they are distracting. Any part that is louder will draw the attention of the listener. This is why pop lead vocals, to use an obvious example, tend to be "up front", whilst the backing vocals are pushed back. It would sound odd if the lead vocal was quieter than the backing vocals. Similarly with hi-hats. If they're too loud, they draw the attention, or focus, away from the lead line/melody, whatever. Also, if part of a kit, the drums will sound unbalanced, if the hats are much louder than the snare or kick, for instance. I think that this why there are certain rules/norms in the music world that are better adhered to.
After all, mixing is a kind of balancing act...

In the end, it's the composer's music. He can do with his compositions what he damn well pleases.

Time to get back on topic, surely?
How do you mix high frequencies, if you cannot actually hear them?

[wagtunes]

I think parts that are "too loud" are "too loud" because they are distracting. Any part that is louder will draw the attention of the listener. This is why pop lead vocals, to use an obvious example, tend to be "up front", whilst the backing vocals are pushed back. It would sound odd if the lead vocal was quieter than the backing vocals. Similarly with hi-hats. If they're too loud, they draw the attention, or focus, away from the lead line/melody, whatever. Also, if part of a kit, the drums will sound unbalanced, if the hats are much louder than the snare or kick, for instance. I think that this why there are certain rules/norms in the music world that are better adhered to.
After all, mixing is a kind of balancing act...

In the end, it's the composer's music. He can do with his compositions what he damn well pleases.

Time to get back on topic, surely?
How do you mix high frequencies, if you cannot actually hear them?

Before I answer your question, tambourines are not played by the drummer. They're played by some chic with green teeth in the font next to a mic. it can be as loud as she damn well pleases.

Now to answer your question, I have no idea. Thus, the thread.

And I'm still no closer to finding a solution than I was when I started because the pink noise thing doesn't work for me.

[whyterabbyt]

Before I answer your question, tambourines are not played by the drummer.

Tambourines are played by drummers. Not in every instance, but its hardly unusual.

A tambourine is a musical instrument typically derived from plastic or wooden frame. It contains pairs of small zils a.k.a. metal jingles to produce its sound. It belongs to the percussion family musical instruments and it can be played in a hand-held or mounted style. You can easily notice the difference between a handheld and mounted tambourine because the latter has a metal holder that can be attached for drum kits.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums-p ... ss-jingles

[BertKoor]

And I'm still no closer to finding a solution than I was when I started because the pink noise thing doesn't work for me.

How many times have you tried? Certainly not as much as this kid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LhGYk8h5Wg

[Reefius]

Wags do you own Neutron 2 Advanced? It includes a great plugin for balancing your mix, it's called Tonal Balance Control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_irH8qflEY