Sub bass / low end problem (melodic techno)

[technobuka]

I have a problem with the low end. I would like someone to explain to me how it is with this sub bass in techno. I am oscillating around melodic techno (artists like: tale of us, mind against, fideles, adriatique, recondite, woo york etc.), but I think that this principle is common to a lot of genres. So far, I tried to put sub bass between the kicks (with sidechain), but it does not sound good - the whole sounds very muddy and does not have the energy of the artists I wrote above.

My questions are:

1) Is the whole low end in melodic techno is only a soft, long, subby kick, and a bass between kicks is played by an octave higher than the sub, or used low toms?

2) I also thought that maybe layering is possible - higher kick, without low frequencies with click + equally playing with sub bass (sin wave)

3) Is my thinking wrong and it is done completely differently?

I would like my songs to sound well down so that they do not stand out from those that are currently being released (I'm not talking about mix, mastering only about production technique)

Thank you so much for your help.

[PurpleSunray]

1) It depends. There are many ways to do it.
You can do a "808 Bassline".
That is a kickdrum where the end of the pitch envelope is extendet further to play the bass.
Simple sine wave that is pitched from hight to low (the kickdrum) and then it keeps playing the low for the whole 1/4 (you can even further modulate the pitch after kickdrum is through - done a lot on future trap/bass sounds).
Or, build an ultra complex custom bassline -> Layer sine OSCs
If you want to sound 'phat', add distortion and/or saturation. A pure sine wave doesn't sound that great.
Add a distortion plugin, multiband if you have. Then play arround with it, i.e. adding a "fuzz distortion" on low-band (<150Hz) converts that boring muddy sine wave into a whole new different thing.

2) Yes, as mentioned above.
If you wan to do that, you NEED a kickdrum synth. Don't even try working with samples.
Tune kickdrum len, start/end frequency, pitch env, the side-chain comp and the bass synth simultaneously.
Lot of fiddling arround but if you find the right knob settings it can sound amazing.

[technobuka]

@PurpleSunray

Thanks! Great informations! I have a KICK 2 from Sonic Academy. It's a powerful tool, but I do not know how to use it... I know that I should set the length depending on the tempo at which work. I do not know how to set all parameters "Pitch" and "Amp" - I do not understand this ...

[PurpleSunray]

... than you need to learn it

Youtube is a really good source to learn it.
Sonic Academy even has a video how to make a techno bass with KICK 2 on their page (including distortion and all that stuff from above )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG8i-TAJUmU

[low_low]

Any producer tricks for luring DJ's and others into playing the track in a way that fattens the sub ? For example, mixing everything, then lower the volume of everything but the sub to essentially force the house to play the sub at a higher volume ? Special mixes for house sound system instead of the "regular" mix for headphones, etc, made during master ? I have never made a track specifically to be played in a club so I have no idea how they are mixed, or even if there is a separate mix for clubs.

[PurpleSunray]

Recude volume when the break comes to an end and pull it up again for the drop.
Push the low-kill button if the break has any, or shorty before the drop and release it again when bass arrives. If there is no break, use the low eq and slowly fade out bass on your own, just to push it to +3db for the next drop. ect. pp. That's why there is a mixer on the stage
In my experience it is not even that important how fat the bass of the whole track is, but how it drops in.
If you hear the "whooooooohoooooo" on the floor when it drops, your job as DJ is done right

When it comes to producers, everyone has its own style.
Starts from a "live set" which are 10 high-polish mastered and pre-arranged tracks. Push the play button and then have fun with the FX on the mixer.
It ends with artists brining their own analog gear on stage to synthesize their sounds on there. They don't even thouch the stage-mixer.

Edit:
The only thing that comes to my mind when you explicitly ask about in-door clubs is: mono.
On big clubs it can be really hard to avoid stereo phasing issues within the whole area. Easy solution is to simply join the signal to mono before feeding it into the amps.
Means, any super-wide stereo sounds on your track will significantly drop off until they reach the floor (that's why it is so important that your bassline is a MONO signal).

[risome]

I have a problem with the low end. I would like someone to explain to me how it is with this sub bass in techno. I am oscillating around melodic techno (artists like: tale of us, mind against, fideles, adriatique, recondite, woo york etc.), but I think that this principle is common to a lot of genres. So far, I tried to put sub bass between the kicks (with sidechain), but it does not sound good - the whole sounds very muddy and does not have the energy of the artists I wrote above.

My questions are:

1) Is the whole low end in melodic techno is only a soft, long, subby kick, and a bass between kicks is played by an octave higher than the sub, or used low toms?

2) I also thought that maybe layering is possible - higher kick, without low frequencies with click + equally playing with sub bass (sin wave)

3) Is my thinking wrong and it is done completely differently?

I would like my songs to sound well down so that they do not stand out from those that are currently being released (I'm not talking about mix, mastering only about production technique)

Thank you so much for your help.

Go and learn about sidechain compression..not for the pumping effect but for the fine control of moving bass out of the way for the kick to punch through.

[technobuka]

Thank you guys! It's really important to me I'm starting to learn KICK 2 and another approach to the sidechain.

[ONST (UK)]

Any producer tricks for luring DJ's and others into playing the track in a way that fattens the sub ? For example, mixing everything, then lower the volume of everything but the sub to essentially force the house to play the sub at a higher volume ? Special mixes for house sound system instead of the "regular" mix for headphones, etc, made during master ? I have never made a track specifically to be played in a club so I have no idea how they are mixed, or even if there is a separate mix for clubs.

Just reference other techno tracks man. That's how they are mixed.