Need Help With Trance Project (CD Completed)

[SynapT!c]

I'd highly recommend to check out Allan Morrows tutorials.

https://allanmorrowstudios.com

These are paid ones, but they beat every YT tutorial by far, IMO.

[recursive one]

I am going to be doing this project with vocals so that may or may not throw the whole Trance label out the window. I don't know. But I have found that most of the Trance posted in the Music Cafe is almost totally void of any melody whatsoever. It's all just, what I would call, backing track. There is no top line. I'm assuming that's normal. Well, for this project, I want to change that. I want to make actual songs but in the style of Trance.

The problem with the word "trance" is that it's sort of umbrella term covering several almost unrelated genres. Psytrance, goa trance, acid trance can be unmelodic or even completely atonal, or have very simple hypnotic melodic lines, but other kinds of trance are very melodic by definition (there is no common name for these but you may find definitions like "normal trance", "commercial trance", "eurotrance") and there is also "vocal trance" subgenre, which is basically normal pop songs with verse/chorus structure and full-blown lyrics wrapped into trance-like arrangement.

I think this song, for instance, is very characteristic for the subgenre, it has all the key elements - all the typical synth sounds and melodic cliches are here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9z-pESrlmA

First, you need very strong kick. People often use two or three kick sounds layered together (a clicky kick with pronounced attack and a boomy low-end kick with long tail), but it's not so easy to get right if you don't have enough experience, so you may go a cheating way and buy some sample packs from Vengeance etc, with already layered and processed kicks. Other percussion (hats, claps), is routed into one bus and heavily compressed (you may try something like Suprercharger), the claps often have big reverb with tempo-synced predelay, the reverb tail is compressed with the rest of the percussion.

The bass is typically layered, you need 2 or 3 synths - the lowest bass plays simple offbeat pattern, the mid bass plays syncopated 16th notes, it is hipassed at around 100-300 Hz and you may add some delay or chorus or whatever else to make it sound wide. Also you may add a third layer playing the same pattern an octave higher. Of course all bass layers are sidechaned from the kick (or you may use something like LFO tool). Basically you may sidechain everything, even reverb and delay sends, and you typically may want to use lots of layers (these sypersaw leads typically consist of at least two layers playing the same thing), loads of reverb and heavy compression, your goal is to make everything huge and wide.

Something like that, I'm not actually an expert in this subgenre, though I did some attempts few years ago (without the vocals)

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/metropolis

[wagtunes]

Thanks Recursive. Nice track. The biggest difference I'm hearing between your track and the tracks I've listened to so far is that they seem to have more space in them. Maybe more reverb? This track seems drier, not that it sounds bad. I'm compiling a list of the tracks I'm listening to and will post it when I'm done.

[recursive one]

Thanks Recursive. Nice track. The biggest difference I'm hearing between your track and the tracks I've listened to so far is that they seem to have more space in them. Maybe more reverb? This track seems drier, not that it sounds bad. I'm compiling a list of the tracks I'm listening to and will post it when I'm done.

Well, I made this track few years ago, TBH it was the first my track which didn't suck really hard (or at least it sucked somehow less than my previous attempts ) It was mixed in a very simple oldschool way, these days trance mixes have much more sophisticated routing and processing.

As far as the reverb goes, the proper use of it is very important, you need to use not only "more" reverb, you also have to apply various tricks to make it sound huge but without blurring the main elements of your mix way too much. Typically people use a bright hall reverb with long tail as global send, you may compress its tail with auto gain compensation to make it sound more upfront and huge, and then you need to put another compressor on it sidechained by the kick or to use LFO Tool for fake sidechain - this makes the kick cut thought the mix better and enchances the groove of the whole track. Also if you have a lead playing stacatto chords with short release, you may add a dedicated reverb send with a long tail and put a compressor on it sidechained by the lead itself. This way the lead will play almost dry but when the sound stops the reverb tail kicks in. Route the lead and the reverb send into the same bus and compress them together.

If you want to quickly get started you may think about buing an open trance project for your DAW and analyze how it is made.

https://www.myloops.net/product/revelat ... e-template

[recursive one]

IMO, one of the best examples of this style is Silence by Delerium, featuring Canadian singer Sarah McLachlan, whose usual style is totally different, but whose voice suits melodic trance really well.

This is sort of classic but IMO it sounds very dated now. I used to like this remix way more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yLKa_i4MCQ

Later I also discovered this version, which treats the main melody in a quite WTF way (I really hated it at first but later it somehow grew on me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NZgDoQ5Yko

But nothing can beat the original song. It's not trance though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PPC7s2_Qh8

[wagtunes]

Thanks Recursive. Nice track. The biggest difference I'm hearing between your track and the tracks I've listened to so far is that they seem to have more space in them. Maybe more reverb? This track seems drier, not that it sounds bad. I'm compiling a list of the tracks I'm listening to and will post it when I'm done.

Well, I made this track few years ago, TBH it was the first my track which didn't suck really hard (or at least it sucked somehow less than my previous attempts ) It was mixed in a very simple oldschool way, these days trance mixes have much more sophisticated routing and processing.

As far as the reverb goes, the proper use of it is very important, you need to use not only "more" reverb, you also have to apply various tricks to make it sound huge but without blurring the main elements of your mix way too much. Typically people use a bright hall reverb with long tail as global send, you may compress its tail with auto gain compensation to make it sound more upfront and huge, and then you need to put another compressor on it sidechained by the kick or to use LFO Tool for fake sidechain - this makes the kick cut thought the mix better and enchances the groove of the whole track. Also if you have a lead playing stacatto chords with short release, you may add a dedicated reverb send with a long tail and put a compressor on it sidechained by the lead itself. This way the lead will play almost dry but when the sound stops the reverb tail kicks in. Route the lead and the reverb send into the same bus and compress them together.

If you want to quickly get started you may think about buing an open trance project for your DAW and analyze how it is made.

https://www.myloops.net/product/revelat ... e-template

Okay, you're speaking Greek to me. Are there tutorials that show how to do all this? Because I have no idea what you're talking about,

[Delta Sign]

You basically want to sidechain your reverb (and a lot of other things) to your kick and generally compress many things to make sure they always stay upfront.

[wagtunes]

You basically want to sidechain your reverb (and a lot of other things) to your kick and generally compress many things to make sure they always stay upfront.

Okay, right now I use different reverbs in my music depending on the track. For example, I don't use the same reverb for my vocal as I do for my drums or brass or strings or whatever.

Are you saying for Trance you use ONE reverb and sidechain it to everything?

[DJ Warmonger]

Simplifying reverb is always a good practice. Reverb simulates room acoustics. If you use different reverbs, it makes it sound like every instrument was in a different room - which makes no sense at all.

And yes, I use lush global reverb sidechained to kick, butalso sidechained to input signal.

[Delta Sign]

Well, there are certainly a lot of trance tracks that do that. But don't sidechain it to everything, just to the kick. You want that whoooooOOOOOSH between the kicks
As recursive one said, a bright reverb works best for this.

Also, I wouldn't approach this from a "things you do in trance" angle. While the genre is certainly very formularic, there is still room for creativity.

[wagtunes]

Well, there are certainly a lot of trance tracks that do that. But don't sidechain it to everything, just to the kick. You want that whoooooOOOOOSH between the kicks
As recursive one said, a bright reverb works best for this.

Also, I wouldn't approach this from a "things you do in trance" angle. While the genre is certainly very formularic, there is still room for creativity.

Well, the thing is I don't use sidechaining in any of the music I do because I just don't need to.

So I guess the first thing I have to do is go to Youtube and look up, "How to sidechain reverb to kick" and weed through the 7,000 videos that come up, each one with a different way to do it.

That is what's so frustrating about learning this stuff. Everybody has their own way and Person A says Person B's way is wrong and Person C says Person A's way is wrong and around and around we go.

And of course no matter what I come up with and no matter how much work I put into it, somebody is going to say "That's not Trance" for whatever stupid reason.

Well, at least if I know this going in, I can prepare myself for it and then decide to not give a crap. I mean I'm just doing this for myself anyway just to see if I can.

Anyway, off to Youtube because I'm not paying $35 to Sonic Academy to learn how to do a Trance track.

Ridiculous.

[Delta Sign]

Depending on what DAW you are using, it should actually pretty simple. Most DAWs even have the ability to sidecahin compress built in, I think. There are also various "cheat tools" that allow you to fake the sidechain compression. Heck, simple volume automation would do the trick.

[garryknight]

This is sort of classic but IMO it sounds very dated now.

Yes, but I chose this version as, for me, it shows the basic elements of trance very cleanly, with the four-on-the-floor kick, the rolling bass, the 16th plucks across two octaves, the heavy reverb, the breakdown and the buildup. It's also one of the versions that comes closest to pure trance.

I used to like this remix way more

Interesting and well-made. Thanks for this.

Later I also discovered this version, which treats the main melody in a quite WTF way (I really hated it at first but later it somehow grew on me)

An interesting steal, but not as good, IMO.

But nothing can beat the original song. It's not trance though

Agreed, on both counts!

[wagtunes]

Depending on what DAW you are using, it should actually pretty simple. Most DAWs even have the ability to sidecahin compress built in, I think. There are also various "cheat tools" that allow you to fake the sidechain compression. Heck, simple volume automation would do the trick.

Okay, I've just watched 3 videos, all in Cubase, which is what I use, showing how to sidechain reverb to whatever instrument you want to sidechain it to.

In principle, I understand what's going on.

You have your instrument, let's say vocal in this case because that was the most clear demo.

You have your vocal track, you have your reverb and you have your compressor. What's happening is that when the vocal triggers, meaning there is actually singing at that point, the compressor kicks in and essentially shuts off the reverb so the vocal becomes very clear and not washed out in reverb. When the vocal phrase stops, the compressor stops working and the reverb comes in, essentially at the tail of the vocal phrase.

I get that and it sounds great.

But I have no freaking clue how he set it up. He says what to do (send the reverb to the vocal and then sidechain the compressor to the reverb) but doesn't actually walk through the steps.

I need a piece of paper for Cubase 7 that says.

Step 1 - Do this

Step 2 - Do this

And so on.

Once I figure out how to sidechain reverb one time, I'll be able to do it for any track after that.

[Mushy Mushy]

Insert VST3 plugin (important) on the pad/lead
Click square with the line above it at the top of the VST window
Send kick to aforementioned VST via send