Need Vocal Production Tips

[wagtunes]

as funky lime says, the performance is everything.
don't be afraid to go for it! go big or go home!

also, this means having a space where this is possible. if you've got arsey neighbours, you may need to find a venue where you can let rip.


lennon would record with a reverb and double track most times.

geezer from free had the multi mic thing going on, one of which had heavier gain but was turned down, ala donks low distorted version of the vox.

Thanks. Homeowner so no problems with neighbors. Of course I do have to respect the wife. Fortunately, she goes out a lot so I have plenty of time to record.

I don't have much of a voice so my "going for it" can only go so far. But I'm trying. That's why I want to get as many vocal production tricks under my thumb as I can as I need all the help I can get.

This is the track I just did where I got quite a few positive comments on the vocals, which surprised the hell out of me because I'm not really a singer.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... gel-master

[donkey tugger]

as funky lime says, the performance is everything.
don't be afraid to go for it! go big or go home!

also, this means having a space where this is possible. if you've got arsey neighbours, you may need to find a venue where you can let rip.


lennon would record with a reverb and double track most times.

geezer from free had the multi mic thing going on, one of which had heavier gain but was turned down, ala donks low distorted version of the vox.

Thanks. Homeowner so no problems with neighbors. Of course I do have to respect the wife. Fortunately, she goes out a lot so I have plenty of time to record.

I don't have much of a voice so my "going for it" can only go so far. But I'm trying. That's why I want to get as many vocal production tricks under my thumb as I can as I need all the help I can get.

This is the track I just did where I got quite a few positive comments on the vocals, which surprised the hell out of me because I'm not really a singer.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... gel-master

Neighbours, I say f**k em...!

Can I ask what you're using to record? Seems to be a hell of a lot of background hiss there. Probably brought up a lot by compression etc, but it's unusual to have so much. Or isit that the level of the recording is really low?

[fese]

What funky lime said... Especially about microphone position. Lower the mic that the diaphragm points to your throat/chest and you get a very different sound as when the diaphragm is at the height of your nose. Also what he wrote about editing. It is advisable to spend more time on editing, comping, level adjustments, dealing with breathes and sibilance than browsing through plugins and presets, even if that is more fun :=)

I don't think there are many one-size-fits-all tips for vocal production as it very much depends on the the style of the music. A folk ballad calls for a rather natural sound, so you would probably EQ and compress very gently and apply a natural sounding reverb; a rock song must be processed and compressed much more to cut through the mix and doesn't need a big reverb but maybe just a delay.

That being said, I like to use TDR Slick EQ's "deresonate" feature for finding resonant frequencies, it is surprisingly good and helpful and can provide a good starting point for finding and eliminating annoying frequencies if you are not that experienced (like me)
And I almost always equalize the vocal reverb, before the reverb (the famous "Abbey Road Reverb trick") and after.

[donkey tugger]

(the famous "Abbey Road Reverb trick")

Very important! As is ensuring you have enough predelay in the reverb settings to let the direct signal come through a bit before the reverb kicks in.

Whilst I wouldn't argue with any of the tips about doing the recording so far, it's also all about being comfortable and at ease when recording. No-one would ever recommend chain smoking and sitting down, but it's what works for me, being a bit of a wannabe crooner. Worth experimenting (not with the cigs possibly....) to see what works.

[vurt]

jim morisson was reportedly given a blow job during the recording of "youre lost little girl"

[wagtunes]

as funky lime says, the performance is everything.
don't be afraid to go for it! go big or go home!

also, this means having a space where this is possible. if you've got arsey neighbours, you may need to find a venue where you can let rip.


lennon would record with a reverb and double track most times.

geezer from free had the multi mic thing going on, one of which had heavier gain but was turned down, ala donks low distorted version of the vox.

Thanks. Homeowner so no problems with neighbors. Of course I do have to respect the wife. Fortunately, she goes out a lot so I have plenty of time to record.

I don't have much of a voice so my "going for it" can only go so far. But I'm trying. That's why I want to get as many vocal production tricks under my thumb as I can as I need all the help I can get.

This is the track I just did where I got quite a few positive comments on the vocals, which surprised the hell out of me because I'm not really a singer.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... gel-master

Neighbours, I say f**k em...!

Can I ask what you're using to record? Seems to be a hell of a lot of background hiss there. Probably brought up a lot by compression etc, but it's unusual to have so much. Or isit that the level of the recording is really low?

I added the noise on the recording. It was done intentionally. I did use Kilohearzt Noise Reduction to take some of it out but I left some in. I wanted that sound. It was a deliberate production choice.

[donkey tugger]

as funky lime says, the performance is everything.
don't be afraid to go for it! go big or go home!

also, this means having a space where this is possible. if you've got arsey neighbours, you may need to find a venue where you can let rip.


lennon would record with a reverb and double track most times.

geezer from free had the multi mic thing going on, one of which had heavier gain but was turned down, ala donks low distorted version of the vox.

Thanks. Homeowner so no problems with neighbors. Of course I do have to respect the wife. Fortunately, she goes out a lot so I have plenty of time to record.

I don't have much of a voice so my "going for it" can only go so far. But I'm trying. That's why I want to get as many vocal production tricks under my thumb as I can as I need all the help I can get.

This is the track I just did where I got quite a few positive comments on the vocals, which surprised the hell out of me because I'm not really a singer.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... gel-master

Neighbours, I say f**k em...!

Can I ask what you're using to record? Seems to be a hell of a lot of background hiss there. Probably brought up a lot by compression etc, but it's unusual to have so much. Or isit that the level of the recording is really low?

I added the noise on the recording. It was done intentionally. I did use Kilohearzt Noise Reduction to take some of it out but I left some in. I wanted that sound. It was a deliberate production choice.

Ah...sorry. you might want try to put the noise after the compression then (or separately) as with it fluctuating like that with the vocal it does make it sound a bit like compression noise. Good convincing effect anyway!

[tehlord]

Not sure if you're looking into recording techniques or merely post production, but I believe a good vocal take happens before it ever hits the DAW.

Bingo

90% of the magic is in the performance and recording. There is no secret way around this, plugins are just garnish to an already stupendous (or shit) dish.

[an-electric-heart]

I agree. You can't really do much to fix singing as far as effects go. You've got to get it right at the performance stage. And if you can't, Just focus on editing; Chop up and moving words to tighten the timing up, and punch-ins/cross-fades to fix off notes and pronunciation problems.

[wagtunes]

as funky lime says, the performance is everything.
don't be afraid to go for it! go big or go home!

also, this means having a space where this is possible. if you've got arsey neighbours, you may need to find a venue where you can let rip.


lennon would record with a reverb and double track most times.

geezer from free had the multi mic thing going on, one of which had heavier gain but was turned down, ala donks low distorted version of the vox.

Thanks. Homeowner so no problems with neighbors. Of course I do have to respect the wife. Fortunately, she goes out a lot so I have plenty of time to record.

I don't have much of a voice so my "going for it" can only go so far. But I'm trying. That's why I want to get as many vocal production tricks under my thumb as I can as I need all the help I can get.

This is the track I just did where I got quite a few positive comments on the vocals, which surprised the hell out of me because I'm not really a singer.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... gel-master

Neighbours, I say f**k em...!

Can I ask what you're using to record? Seems to be a hell of a lot of background hiss there. Probably brought up a lot by compression etc, but it's unusual to have so much. Or isit that the level of the recording is really low?

I added the noise on the recording. It was done intentionally. I did use Kilohearzt Noise Reduction to take some of it out but I left some in. I wanted that sound. It was a deliberate production choice.

Ah...sorry. you might want try to put the noise after the compression then (or separately) as with it fluctuating like that with the vocal it does make it sound a bit like compression noise. Good convincing effect anyway!

There's actually a lot of processing going on in this recording. It was the first time I ever had to use a noise gate in a recording especially since I do everything ITB.

Been doing a lot of studying and not so much recording lately and it's really made a difference. But vocals still throw me a little since I don't have a great voice.

And for those above stressing the performance, of course. But there's only so much I can do there not being a professional singer. That's why I want to help my voice along as much as I can by other means.

[vurt]

I don't have a great voice.

you have your voice!
ok, not every track ive heard you sing on was great, but there where a couple where it felt "right"
as in, you where singing words you believed.

give me that over some trained singer, hitting every note, but sounding empty.

you may not be springsteen (picked him cos you mention him a lot)[personally, don't rate him, but my mum likes him] but you are wags! own yourself!
don't go in with an "i cant" attitude, go in thinking "f**k it, lets rock!"

[Jace-BeOS]

The SoundCloud song a few posts up sounds interesting. It has a unique quality to it. I’ve heard terrible singing. This isn’t it. This isn’t bad. Don’t knock yourself so much, you’re not doing badly.

The best thing to do is keep singing as much as possible. Yes, that’s just a way of saying “practice makes better”. Sing along to other people’s stuff while you’re not making music of your own. Sing sing sing sing sing. And then sing some more.

I likely wouldn’t be able to sing at all today if I hadn’t been singing to other people’s music all my life. I’m still not great, but exercise brings improvement. I recommend it for everyone

[wagtunes]

The SoundCloud song a few posts up sounds interesting. It has a unique quality to it. I’ve heard terrible singing. This isn’t it. This isn’t bad. Don’t knock yourself so much, you’re not doing badly.

The best thing to do is keep singing as much as possible. Yes, that’s just a way of saying “practice makes better”. Sing along to other people’s stuff while you’re not making music of your own. Sing sing sing sing sing. And then sing some more.

I likely wouldn’t be able to sing at all today if I hadn’t been singing to other people’s music all my life. I’m still not great, but exercise brings improvement. I recommend it for everyone

I've been singing all my life. I sing in the choir. I've made thousands of recordings of me singing. But God gives everybody so much to work with. Some people get more than others. Training can help a little but for me (yes, I took voice lessons) it only helped so much. My physical makeup structurally is not conducive to having a "great" voice.

Of course lots of popular singers didn't have great voices. Lou Reed, Rod Stewart, Kim Carnes, Bonnie Tyler, Joe Cocker, and I can go on and on. But they have voices with character. Tons of character. And Lou Reed could talk the dictionary and sound cool.

Anyway, I make do with what I have. I always did. But I'm not a kid anymore either. Just turned 61. At some point in time, the voice DOES go. My mom, who was an opera singer, eventually lost her voice. Look at Julie Andrews. She can't sing at all anymore.

I'm not making excuses. But I'm also a realist. Some songs I'd be insane to try to sing. The song I posted is the kind of stuff I'm good at. So that's what I'll stick to. For other songs, I'll use alternatives.

[donkey tugger]

There's actually a lot of processing going on in this recording. It was the first time I ever had to use a noise gate in a recording especially since I do everything ITB.

Been doing a lot of studying and not so much recording lately and it's really made a difference. But vocals still throw me a little since I don't have a great voice.

And for those above stressing the performance, of course. But there's only so much I can do there not being a professional singer. That's why I want to help my voice along as much as I can by other means.

One thing you might try if you're using a lot of processing is to get your main vocal sounding about right as you'd like it, with any edits and pitch correction done, then export it with just the compression, eq, and any volume automation, but no reverb, delay or other modulation effects. You've then got a 'clean' copy you can use for things like harmonizers. 'spot' effects such as delays. You've got a lot more control that way in that you can eq/automate/pan etc these tracks individually. I always find it much easier than trying to do a lot of processing on one vocal track.

[Unaspected]

Some vocal production techniques here: http://www.theflipsideforum.com/index.php?topic=29136.0