KVR Audio

hollyWorse · Post by **hollyWorse** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:25 pm

WARNING: This is my opinion. I'm still looking for reasonable answers.

Been using Sonar for a while now. Long ago I was using Cubase.

Sonar just gets worse with every update - they implement crap after crap, interface is a mess, simple functions are hidden under layers of special functions. Latency gets worse every update. I'm at the point where I say "screw that money, I'll buy another one". Then I demoed Cubase. It sucked as hard. Then tried Reaper. Latency was a mess, dropouts all over the place (RME card). I demoed Live next. Well - Live's just not for everyone I guess.

OMG why is it so hard to make a DAW? What can I try? Reason? Studio One?

I'm hardly doing audio, but a sh*tload of Softsynths and plugins in every project.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:00 pm

I think it's personal what you like or not in workflow.
But things you refer to is something else.

An RME card and dropouts - what latency setting do you use?
Seems too low for computer you have and amount of softsynths loaded.

Rule #1 - if you start getting crackles of some sort - freeze a synth to take off load from system.

Reaper is different in how it adds latency for you - depending on loaded plugins.
If you add a plugin that is even one sample latency - Reaper add a full buffer to monitor through while recording.
If total latency for project as loaded is higher than one buffer - it adds two buffers. Always multiples of asio buffers until it can delay other tracks than the ones with plugins having a delay.
It aligns everything correct - it's just roundtrip that gets full multiple buffers delay.

One of the first things I discovered with Reaper 2010 - I had to lower asio buffer setting to get decent roundtrip delay. With RME interal cards I had no problem setting 64 samples.

Cubase has this ASIO Guard thingy - turn it off and see how it goes - at least until you figure system out.
Playback crackles a bit sooner though but I start freezing tracks instead as needed.
Try to use as little fancy stuff as possible. Something I remotely get how it works.

Cubase is different in how you must set left locator to where recording is to start. Every other daw you just set cursor and press record and it record from there. But Alt Click in floating toolbar sets left locator as cursor is now.

So no - I don't think the daw is the problem.
Sonar is excellent.
Cubase is excellent.
Reaper is excellent.

Check out your system a bit. And freeze stuff, no need to run realtime on everything.

Resonant- Serpent · Post by **Resonant- Serpent** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:45 pm

Learn to commit, and render your tracks. It'll take a load off your comp and the program, which will save you headaches.

FWIW, I consider Sonar to be dead last in efficiency when it comes to soft synths.

Cubase works fine for me. I rarely have problems.

burkek · Post by **burkek** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:52 pm

I can't keep up with the monthly changes in Sonar. I don't get to make music very often, and by the time I do, several updates have happened and there's lots to learn and re-learn. I preferred the annual update + a few follow-up fixes. Once a year I learn the new stuff and then I can be creative. These monthly updates are killing creativity (and, yes, I know I don't have to apply them, but ... shiny new toy ...).

KEv

urlwolf · Post by **urlwolf** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 pm

Try ardour? It's the most dissimilar. You may like it. Or maybe it's dissimilar but worse for you.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:31 pm

Just drop it all together and buy HW.

All DAW's are going to suck for you because you are just looking for excuses to avoid making music.

neverwhere2410 · Post by **neverwhere2410** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:47 pm

Every DAW is the best and also the worst. My experience with Sonar the past year is it has only gotten more stable, and the added features have improved my workflow with every update.

Reaper was ok but I didn't connect with the interface like I do with Sonar.

Gymnopedies · Post by **Gymnopedies** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:56 pm

Finally! Yes, they ALL suck! they suck so much! each and every one...suck,suck,suck,suck...basically. But they are what they are so there-ya-go.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:05 pm

Hi

by default ALL DAW's become feature ridden (some may call it bloat).

You only have to read postings whenever a new DAW version is released - typically users (already) requesting features which were not included in that latest version.

So there is an ever present pressure on the developer to include user requested features along with further new features which will make the next version attractive to buyers/up graders and cross graders.

Of course you may find a DAW that works for you and 'BLAM' it stops getting developed (Energy XT springs to mind).

Perhaps it is best to stick with a version that work well for you and ignore updates for a while - a lot of people will 'skip' a version (or two or three).

I do this with NI's Komplete (I know this is not a DAW) and have done the same with Reason/Live.

I agree that it should be VERY simple to load up a vst and get going - it amazes me how convoluted some DAW's make such a simple task...

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:37 pm

urlwolf wrote:Try ardour? It's the most dissimilar. You may like it. Or maybe it's dissimilar but worse for you.

I actually like Ardour if you are just doing straight audio it's great . I haven't fooled with the midi side of it nor care too . I used Hydrogen and Ardour on Linux one time for a song it was not to shabby ..

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:46 pm

Can't comprehend. I love my DAW's.

generaldiomedes · Post by **generaldiomedes** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:14 am

Force yourself to make a song .. Live I took a while to get but then it really clicked .. however its forte is electronic music with a structured repetitive nature.

Studio one was the first DAW I loved and I still think it's the best for more loosely structured MIDI and also anything audio based

Reaper I will never go back to due to the UI

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:27 am

Try Bitwig, it really clicked with me, musicians DAW, everything you need is there, no extra complexity, but even great solutions, sure, there's some niggles like with every DAW out there, but that's personal preference there, so yeah, give it a ride.

https://www.bitwig.com/en/home.html

ganym3d · Post by **ganym3d** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:31 am

I love my Life (Live) seriously... Please excuse the pun... Tried Cubase, Sonar, Bitwig, Reaper and so on... Ableton is my go-to-DAW forever, so... YES! Almost all DAW "suck"...

Only Live doesn't!

All the best for you around this small Planet!!!

Regards from Berlin,

Stephan

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:36 am

There's no perfect DAW, and each has strengths and weaknesses. Not sure what you mean by latency getting worse in Sonar with each release (that seems strange) and latency being a mess in Reaper (which, if anything, I'd describe as the performance DAW). You might want to look into what's going on there, as I found those descriptions odd.

But yeah, Sonar has a ton of features, but the interface is a bloated mess. Studio One has a great workflow with audio, but really lacking on the MIDI side of the house. Cubase has way better MIDI features, but has a ton of baggage in and of itself. Reaper is super efficient, but it's UI and paradigm just will never click with most people. Logic is Mac only, and could be great now, but I wouldn't know. Pro Tools is probably the most complained about DAW on the net. Live/Bitwig, just would never suit my particular workflow.

Find a DAW that works well enough and is stable and stick with it. Maybe keep a backup DAW that compliments the weaknesses of your primary DAW and flip back and forth as needed, or transfer audio/MIDI between them.

Do all DAWs suck?