64 and 32-bit hosts forever?

[aciddose]

In other words: identical "bad" code is faster on 64-bit (AMD64) than 32-bit (x86) automatically. It is possible to get an up to 20% or more improvement by optimizing such code on the 64-bit platform.

So which is better? Clearly 64-bit is because it allows far greater efficiency.

[AnX]

Security issuses aside, if it works why change it? I used XP for 7 years, and ive been on Win7 for 5 years. I prob wont 'upgrade' till this pc dies. I havent had any OS related problems with my music software, and havent seen anything in Win8/10 that i need or looks useful.

This is a fine attitude to have if that computer never communicates with the internet.

Mine never did, nor does my current one.

Why would anyone connect a studio computer to the net

[chk071]

Security issuses aside, if it works why change it? I used XP for 7 years, and ive been on Win7 for 5 years. I prob wont 'upgrade' till this pc dies. I havent had any OS related problems with my music software, and havent seen anything in Win8/10 that i need or looks useful.

This is a fine attitude to have if that computer never communicates with the internet.

Mine never did, nor does my current one.

Why would anyone connect a studio computer to the net

Obviously, most people seem to think differently, with all those online hubs in DAW's on the start page. And the built in update check option.

[aciddose]

Stuper-duper simplified non-technical version:

• Addressing is significantly improved on 64-bit, all memory can be accessed more efficiently as well as more of it.
• All 32-bit code can run flawlessly on 64-bit with no changes.
• Computations can be more accurate on 64-bit. Both integer and most importantly floating point.
• 64-bit CPUs always have minimal SSE support which allows code to take advantage of significant optimizations without sacrificing compatibility.
• There is more "working memory" (registers) in a 64-bit CPU which helps to speed things up significantly.
• Due to all of the above, the same code running in 64-bit will tend to be slightly faster than in 32-bit without modification.
• Due to all of the above, code for 64-bit can be improved and optimized to run significantly faster than for 32-bit.

[fluffy_little_something]

I suppose many people who make music on the computer only have one computer. So, naturally they use it for the Internet as well.
Professional studios may be a different story.

[T-CM11]

I suppose many people who make music on the computer only have one computer. So, naturally they use it for the Internet as well.
Professional studios may be a different story.

Why? It's not the 90s anymore. A second hand laptop for less than a 100€ can be fine for just internet.
Maybe we've come full circle here. Have some 10 year old fossil with 2GB RAM or less lying around? Just install Win10x32 and you have a fine internet PC - and your DAW can remain offline.

[yellowmix]

I'll take a wild guess [...]

The last time i had to deal with a 16-bit installer was the discontinued (in 1998) Propellerhead Rebirth (which is now unavailable again). That was the only time i had to install something using a custom installer someone made.

If you don't have numbers then don't make them up. You can't extrapolate your personal first world music producer experience to the vast majority of the world. Fact of the matter is, there are a billion computers out there running Windows and Microsoft thinks there are enough consumers in situations that warrant it. They may not matter to you but they matter to Microsoft. This isn't necessarily in a humanitarian sense; it has to make fiscal sense to them.

Ubuntu offers a 32-bit version, and Microsoft is competing with that. Why is Ubuntu making a 32-bit version? Because people need it.

[fluffy_little_something]

I suppose many people who make music on the computer only have one computer. So, naturally they use it for the Internet as well.
Professional studios may be a different story.

Why? It's not the 90s anymore. A second hand laptop for less than a 100€ can be fine for just internet.
Maybe we've come full circle here. Have some 10 year old fossil with 2GB RAM or less lying around? Just install Win10x32 and you have a fine internet PC - and your DAW can remain offline.

I would not want to use two or more computers at the same time. I use my computer for music, for work, for surfing, etc. I like having it all in one device.

[chk071]

Ubuntu offers a 32-bit version, and Microsoft is competing with that. Why is Ubuntu making a 32-bit version? Because people need it.

Some news for you: Ubuntu 17.10 will only come with a 64-bit desktop installation ISO.

Not sure what you mean with Microsoft "competing with that" though.

[aciddose]

Some news for you: Ubuntu 17.10 will only come with a 64-bit desktop installation ISO.

I'm not 100% certain but I believe it is also possible to run an Ubuntu distribution on a 386 or SPARC with enough configuration.

They're not creating pre-built "idiot proof" images for platforms that don't make up a majority of the market. That's fine though since 100% of the system is open-source and can be configured or re-compiled by anyone, for anything.

If people want to run open-source software on esoteric hardware that's the whole point of open-source: they can modify and compile it themselves.

Regarding 32-bit platforms: a large portion of the market in Eastern Europe, Russia, China, Mexico (+ Guatemala, Belize, Central), South America, India, the Middle East, Africa and other "not first world" locations is running "recycled" 32-bit hardware sourced in "first world" countries and shipped as garbage to these other countries. Those millions of machines from the early 2000s (32-bit, Windows XP) "recycled" in the US are probably being used in those locations at a surprisingly high rate.

Pirate versions of Windows 7 are very common as most of this hardware works well enough and often better with Win7 vs. it did with the original XP. Most modern software is compatible with 32-bit Win7.

Arguably this portion of the "market" is the source of a majority of worldwide "piracy" of modern software. So in that light it is actually potentially beneficial to commercial distributors to cease distribution of 32-bit compatible software versions as it will "pull the rug out" of the distribution networks for pirate versions of their software.

For free software (such as Xhip, or desktop Linux) however this opens up the possibility of "taking up the slack" left behind where commercial developers have abandoned that market. Therefore it is also potentially a liability in the long-term for commercial distributors to cease support for these markets.

Not sure what you mean with Microsoft "competing with that" though.

Now you know.

[fluffy_little_something]

I know people in Latin America and China, they don't use our old 32-bit devices at all.
Maybe in Africa, but then again, Africa is very much into cell phones instead of computers.
Europe ships a lot of old devices including computers to Africa, especially Ghana and Nigeria, but they are treated as waste there, too. Children pry and melt precious materials out of them and ruin their health instead of going to school. It's actually illegal to export that stuff to such countries, but nobody enforces that EU law.

[aciddose]

"The first dose is free," said Hal Varian, a professor of information management at UC Berkeley, facetiously comparing Microsoft's anti-piracy policy to street-corner marketing of illicit drugs. "Once you start using a product, you keep using it."

Even as the Internet makes global piracy easier than ever, Microsoft's revenue and profit have risen steadily. It earned $12 billion on $41.4 billion in revenue in calendar '05.

That record of success has led many experts and software companies to regard piracy as less of a problem than initially assumed or even part of a comprehensive strategy, said Eric Goldman, a law professor at Marquette University in Milwaukee and the former chief counsel of a Silicon Valley Internet firm.

"Is widespread piracy simply foregone revenue, a business model by accident or a business model by design?" he asked. "Maybe all three."

Of course, Microsoft executives prefer that people buy, but theft can build market share more quickly, as company co-founder and Chairman Bill Gates acknowledged in an unguarded moment in 1998.

"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

That's exactly what has happened around the globe, according to the Business Software Alliance, a Microsoft-backed anti-piracy group. Even Vietnam, which at more than 90% has the highest piracy rate in the world, has improved from 100% in 1994. The No. 1 software firm in Vietnam: Microsoft.

I know people in Latin America and China, they don't use our old 32-bit devices at all.

He said, she said. Only circumstantial evidence.

Maybe in Africa, but then again, Africa is very much into cell phones instead of computers.
Europe ships a lot of old devices including computers to Africa, especially Ghana and Nigeria, but they are treated as waste there, too. Children pry and melt precious materials out of them and ruin their health instead of going to school. It's actually illegal to export that stuff to such countries, but nobody enforces that EU law.

To be honest most people in such conditions can't afford their grocery bill let alone to pay for internet access and having all the extra time to play with VSTs.

What shapes the market is entirely economic: does it make sense to own a desktop PC in most places? No. Arguably though mobile phones aren't to be considered a part of the desktop PC market. So the question isn't "do 99.9% of people use old PCs?", it's "how many out of over 8 billion people use old PCs?".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_density

World population in "the first world" has already begun to shrink.

[aciddose]

Actual numbers:

Downloads of Xhip and related software, percentage of total, 32-bit:

• Over the past 3.5 years: 42.4%
• Over the past year: 41.2%
• This week: 50.5%

This doesn't seem to be decreasing much. Obviously the market for free software in 32-bit is likely to be biased vs. commercial software. Most people with 32-bit hardware probably spend less on software. I'd be curious to see numbers from some commercial distributors though to verify that. It might not be significantly different at all.

[yellowmix]

Some news for you: Ubuntu 17.10 will only come with a 64-bit desktop installation ISO.

Not sure what you mean with Microsoft "competing with that" though.

Microsoft is competing with free (as in beer) and open-source in general. When Ubuntu moves to 64-bit, then its forebear Debian or some other distro will take its place on 32-bit machines. Intel still makes 32-bit Atom processors and Microsoft wants their OS on those machines. Microsoft may be nicer in some ways now but they want to stay dominant in business, which means being everywhere.

[nIGhT-SoN]

Why does MS continue to sell 32-bit versions of Windows operating systems, even of W10?

For a HTPC computer you won't need much ram, 2-4GB can be sufficient, depending on what you indent to do with it and so you don't really need 64bit OS.