Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

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pekbro
KVRAF
2841 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:12 pm

I just record the stuff, no piano roll. I don’t even have to quantize as my timing is always good. *shrugs

ShawnG
KVRian
722 posts since 27 Apr, 2005

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:23 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:04 pm
antic604 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:58 pm
How did we go from comparing Live vs. Bitwig to S1 vs FL? :D
Because the Reaper fanboys have all gone to bed
This is the correct answer.

tooneba
KVRian
1313 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:22 pm

A very good time to summon Ableton pianoroll master race advocator.

apoclypse
KVRist
155 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:35 am

Trancit wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:50 am
Ryan99 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:15 am

Different tastes, but you don’t seem to know Studio One very well to say this...
Not perfectly for sure but good enough to stand with my opinion that it cannot compete for me ...

It doesn´t have the looks (I find the music editor quite ugly) not the responsiveness or in short not that "feeling" and I don´t like how advanced tools are integrated with the blindflight method...

The Pattern editor otoh is very nice and for me much more advanced as FLS´s Step Sequencer...

I have both these DAWs and I don't agree. FL's PR is pretty good, great in certain instances even but S1's Piano Roll is actually pretty damn good. I really, really like the way S1 handles automation in the PR. I was never a fan of the way FL handles that.

As for looks, that's subjective. I personally think FLStudio looks like a toy but that's just me. The "feeling" and all that are not quantifiable so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

That being said I agree that S1 should focus on more realtime tools rather than "do this and click apply" type tools. They do that in certain instances (their Quantization tools for example) but the immediacy isn't there unless you use shortcuts and macros.
Studio One 4.6 // Bitwig 3.0.3 // Logic Pro X 10.4.8 // Ableton 9 // Reason 9.5 // Maschine

apoclypse
KVRist
155 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:43 am

In-terms of Piano Roll, Bitwig's is certainly not the best more featureful Piano Roll. They seem to have taken a page from Ableton in that regard, however there are tools that it has which are pretty cool like the Histogram for Per note pitch editing. It just needs some more quality of life features like scales and an easy way to draw arps etc in the PR.
Studio One 4.6 // Bitwig 3.0.3 // Logic Pro X 10.4.8 // Ableton 9 // Reason 9.5 // Maschine

SLiC
KVRAF
4418 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:31 am

I think a lot of people overlook the midi rack tools that do apply scales (and micro tuning) arps,and chords etc. There are some incredibly powerful midi tools that unlike normal piano roll can be modulated and altered in real time ,so it's worth exploring.
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

Trancit
KVRAF
2571 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:31 pm

SLiC wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:31 am
I think a lot of people overlook the midi rack tools that do apply scales (and micro tuning) arps,and chords etc. There are some incredibly powerful midi tools that unlike normal piano roll can be modulated and altered in real time ,so it's worth exploring.
But don´t forget that every "normal" DAW is able doing this as well...
This is not a benefit of using Bitwig or Live... they just have very simple editors and need these tools to offer a bit more functionality what you get with other DAWs anyway already built in, plus the same possibilities to run this midi through whatever plugin to mangle it further...

Trancit
KVRAF
2571 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:41 pm

apoclypse wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:35 am
I have both these DAWs and I don't agree. FL's PR is pretty good, great in certain instances even but S1's Piano Roll is actually pretty damn good. I really, really like the way S1 handles automation in the PR. I was never a fan of the way FL handles that.
...
The automation feature for S1´s PR is nice indeed... but lacks then otoh of deeper integration of native devices like FLS has like per note pan, x/y control, slide... in FLS with native devices was already since a decade or more a lot possible wherefor others now have to integrate MPE for...

It´s a matter of preference what is more important for you...

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16319 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:18 pm

Trancit wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:31 pm
SLiC wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:31 am
I think a lot of people overlook the midi rack tools that do apply scales (and micro tuning) arps,and chords etc. There are some incredibly powerful midi tools that unlike normal piano roll can be modulated and altered in real time ,so it's worth exploring.
But don´t forget that every "normal" DAW is able doing this as well...
This is not a benefit of using Bitwig or Live... they just have very simple editors and need these tools to offer a bit more functionality what you get with other DAWs anyway already built in, plus the same possibilities to run this midi through whatever plugin to mangle it further...
I don’t think every normal DAW has the functionality of the new Bitwig microtonal capability.

And it is well integrated into the core app... so MPE, voice stacking, per voice modulation and so on.

Bitwig has some unique tools not readily available elsewhere.

Trancit
KVRAF
2571 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:49 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:18 pm
I don’t think every normal DAW has the functionality of the new Bitwig microtonal capability.
And it is well integrated into the core app... so MPE, voice stacking, per voice modulation and so on.
Bitwig has some unique tools not readily available elsewhere.
1. We try to learn reading right from the beginning... 8)
This was what I responded to:
I think a lot of people overlook the midi rack tools that do apply scales (and micro tuning) arps,and chords etc. ...
And these parts are easily available as Midi VSTs ... therefore any DAW offering VST support can do the same...agree??? And I just mentioned Bitwig as it offers as Ableton clone the same "rack" theme...
(Yeah, let´s start the "Bitwig is no Ableton clone" war!!!) :hihi:

2. Yes, Bitwig does offering some (or quite a lot) unique tools so it does exotic stuff like no other...

Sadly for my personal taste, it falls short in many other parts of the Midi editor and has many graphical issues especially when doing layered editing...

For me Bitwigs PR wasn´t the greatest experience...

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16319 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:53 pm

Trancit wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:49 am
And these parts are easily available as Midi VSTs ... therefore any DAW offering VST support can do the same...agree???
You said built into the DAW

Also, Bitwig is offering some core capabilities not directly possible with VST’s

Trancit
KVRAF
2571 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Ableton vs Bitwig - pros/cons?

Post Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:18 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:53 pm
...
You said built into the DAW...
On top of being able to use plugins for that... yes, of course... most DAWs like Studio One, Reaper, FL Studio have inbuild tools to create chords, arppegiate stuff directly in the PR, add groove, chop them in different rythms, restrict to scales...without having the need to run the midi through plugins in realtime and having to record the result for further editing... etc...

The only popular ones needing plugins for that are Ableton, Bitwig and (I think)... Reason...
Also, Bitwig is offering some core capabilities not directly possible with VST’s
I already confirmed that... Bitwig does the basics and very well the exotic stuff but lacks everything in between...
Most others do very well the basics and the advanced stuff but lack of (mostly) the exotic stuff where at least Bitwig shines (Ableton not so...)...

It´s again a matter of taste what´s important for you...

I more of a trancy guy... for me the most what matters are chords...their creating, handling and mangling... this is i.e. where FLS shines like the brightest star in the sky with it´s easy auditioning, it´s stamp tool, the chop, the arpeggiate, articulate and groove quantizing...respectively that everything is highly user customizeable via user defineable patterns (which no other DAW offers to this extend)...

None of that is available in Bitwig/Ableton apart from the very basic stuff while at least (user) groove quantizing in Ableton...

FLS otoh fails badly when it comes to handling and using audio clips, advanced arranging and organization... it´s playlist (what equals to the Arranger in "normal" Daws) is horrific outdated and lacks of many necessary features... i.e. it´s even impossible to copy/paste something to the playcursor position and much other standard stuff...as well as the playlist isn´t latency compensated neither (problematic with automation and transport synced plugins like e.g. LFO tool etc...)

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